View Poll Results: Who are you holding your nose and voting for?

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  • Trump

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  • Hillary

    10 41.67%
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  • Stein

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Thread: POTUS Election thread

  1. #601
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    So I found another forum I frequent commenting on the leaks and I had a look at them.

    Yeah hooahguy you are making excuses dude. I mean look at this:

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/10808

    In the days before Hillary Clinton launched an unprecedented big-money fundraising vehicle with state parties last summer, she vowed “to rebuild our party<http://articles.philly.com/2015-08-29/news/66006747_1_o-malley-democratic-party-party-leaders> from the ground up,” because she proclaimed “when state parties are strong, we win.”
    But less than 1 percent of the $61 million raised by that effort has stayed in the state parties’ coffers, according to a POLITICO analysis of the latest Federal Election Commission filings.

    The venture, the Hillary Victory Fund, is a so-called joint fundraising committee comprised of Clinton’s presidential campaign, the Democratic National Committee and 32 state party committees. The set-up allows Clinton to solicit checks of $350,000 or more from her super-rich supporters at extravagant fundraisers including a dinner at George Clooney’s house<http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-george-clooney-fundraiser-221207> and at a concert at Radio City Music Hall<http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/katy-perry-elton-john-perform-hillary-clinton-fundraiser/story?id=37359679> featuring Katy Perry and Elton John.

    The victory fund has transferred $3.8 million to the state parties, but almost all of that cash ($3.3 million, or 88 percent) was quickly transferred to the DNC usually within a day or two by the Clinton staffer who runs the committee, POLITICO’s analysis of the FEC records found.

    By contrast, the victory fund has transferred $15.4 million to Clinton’s campaign and $5.7 million to the DNC. And most of the $23.3 spent directly by the victory fund has gone towards expenses that appear to have directly benefitted Clinton’s campaign, including $2.8 million for “salary and overhead” and $8.6 million for web advertising that mostly looks indistinguishable from Clinton campaign ads and that has helped Clinton build a network of small donors who will be critical in a general election expected to cost each side well in excess of $1 billion.

    The arrangement has drawn protests from campaign finance reformers and allies of Clinton’s Democratic rival Bernie Sanders. They see it as a circumvention of campaign contribution limits by a national party apparatus intent on doing whatever it takes to help Clinton win the nomination and then the White House.

    But it is perhaps more notable that the arrangement has prompted concerns among some participating state party officials and their allies. They grumble privately that Clinton is merely using them to subsidize her own operation, while her allies overstate her support for their parties and knock Sanders for not doing enough to help the party.

    “It’s a one-sided benefit,” said an official with one participating state party official. The official, like those with several other state parties declined to talk about the arrangement on the record for fear of drawing the ire of the DNC and the campaign of the party’s likely nominee.

    In fact, the DNC, which has pushed back aggressively on charges that it is boosting Clinton at the expense of other Democrats, has advised state party officials on how to answer media inquiries about the arrangement, multiple sources familiar with the interactions told POLITICO.

    “The DNC has given us some guidance on what they’re saying, but it’s not clear what we should be saying,” said the official. “I don’t think anyone wants to get crosswise with the national party because we do need their resources. But everyone who entered into these agreements was doing it because they were asked to, not because there are immediately clear benefits.”
    DNC’s CFO discusses possible ways to exploit Sander’s religion or lack thereof to sway Southern Baptists away from him. The DNC’s CEO responds with ‘AMEN.’ Marshall has subsequently said he was referring to a “surrogate” and not Sanders.

    Re: No shit

    From:DaceyA@dnc.org
    To: MARSHALL@dnc.org, MirandaL@dnc.org, PaustenbachM@dnc.org
    Date: 2016-05-05 12:23
    Subject: Re: No shit


    AMEN

    Amy K. Dacey | Chief Executive Officer

    Democratic National Committee

    430 S. Capitol Street, SE Washington, D.C. 20003
    202-528-7492 (c) | 202-314-2263 (o)
    DaceyA@dnc.org


    On 5/5/16, 1:33 AM, "Brad Marshall" <MARSHALL@dnc.org> wrote:

    >It's these Jesus thing.
    >
    >> On May 5, 2016, at 1:31 AM, Brad Marshall <MARSHALL@dnc.org> wrote:
    >>
    >> It might may no difference, but for KY and WVA can we get someone to
    >>ask his belief. Does he believe in a God. He had skated on saying he
    >>has a Jewish heritage. I think I read he is an atheist. This could
    >>make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps
    >>would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 07-25-2016 at 21:15.
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  2. #602
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Im not excusing the DNC, not at all. The people involved in the Jewish heritage email should be fired. But theres no proof it was actually done. As for the Politico thing, I dont see how that has had any real impact at all, considering that Hillary has had the worst media coverage compared to anyone else. I simply dont think that its a smoking gun.
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  3. #603
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Worst, or least? The media coverage I've seen of her from anyone not right wing news has been pulling their punches.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  4. #604
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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  5. #605
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Social media is not mainstream media and this article using twitter stats and the like to disprove media bias is about as useful as using comic books to disprove a trend towards communist biases in mainstream literature.

    The guy who wrote that article's history on the site has a lot of headlines hitting trump hard and pulling punches on hillary, that doesnt help his credibility though it does support my claim.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  6. #606
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Did you even read the article? I dont think you understand what its saying about how it collected data, or you just dont know that mainstream media is on social media nowadays. They werent counting some guy from Oklahoma ranting on his twitter page, nowadays media outlets will publish links to their articles on twitter. But if thats not good enough you have this study too.
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  7. #607
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    So the Bernie supporters at the convention are super angry, and people were shouting "lock her up" from the floor. So much for unity.
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  8. #608
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Did you even read the article? I dont think you understand what its saying about how it collected data, or you just dont know that mainstream media is on social media nowadays. They werent counting some guy from Oklahoma ranting on his twitter page, nowadays media outlets will publish links to their articles on twitter. But if thats not good enough you have this study too.
    The first link is anecdotal evidence, the other one is not.

    BUT, you also forget the fact that a lot of Clinton's bad coverage came from some issues not related to her actual campaign, like emails and Benghazi.

  9. #609
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Bad press is bad press and it impacts a campaign all the same. The proceedings over Trump University is bad press for Trump and impacts his campaign as well.
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  10. #610
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    I suppose, as a private entity, the democratic party can do as it pleases. Clinton has been nothing if not a loyal solider. Sanders has basically held the party at arms length for his career, only associating with them when he has to.

    There are a few problems with that. The party has created a perception that they are neutral arbiters in the race for the white house. They have denied that they were backing a horse on multiple occasions. Schnitzel doubled down and was basically forced to resign by the big dem power players. Hill dog then gave Schnitzel a job! How dense can one be?

    The "optics" are wrong.

    Not to mention the whole contributions for jobs, a point that Trump has been hammering.
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 07-26-2016 at 03:09.
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  11. #611
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Also the damage control the big social media sites are trying to do is stunning. Playing right into the Dons hands.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  12. #612
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    I will agree that DWS is a moron and should have resigned immediately. I read something earlier about how a while back Obama tried to force her out of her job and she threw a fit and was going to accuse him of antisemitism or something. I would imagine something similar happened here. Something else to consider is the fact that DWS is for some reason really well liked in her district in Florida. Since Florida is a crucial state, alienating her constituents would probably be a bad idea.

    Honestly though, at this rate Hillary is going to stumble into the general election and I wouldnt be surprised if she fumbled this election which should be a slam dunk for her if she wasnt so scandal-prone. The GOP literally nominated the best candidate for her but I would bet that she still messes it up somehow. She might be an apt politician once in office but she seems to be terrible at the whole campaigning thing. The amateurism of the DNC doesnt help either. If Bernie wasnt such a terrible candidate he would have won the primary.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 07-26-2016 at 03:36.
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  13. #613
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    A bit of advice. If you're an American leftie and you're depressed about how the Democratic Party is going, hop over to the Labour leadership thread and have a read about the latest antics of Our Dear Leader and his Merry Men.

  14. #614
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    She's well liked in her district because she plays the identity politics game like a champ. Railing against Jewish intermarriage while decrying the exclusion of minorities is some kind of balancing act.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  15. #615
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Eh, I dont think that coming out against Jewish intermarriage is really a big deal as you seem to make it out to be. I mean its not really a political issue. At least it shouldnt be a political issue.
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  16. #616
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Eh, I dont think that coming out against Jewish intermarriage is really a big deal as you seem to make it out to be. I mean its not really a political issue. At least it shouldnt be a political issue.
    It's a political issue when you claim to be an inclusionist. You cant demand others shed a certain amount of what makes them "them" while carving out a special place for your own group.

    It's very much a political issue. Being against intermarriage is laughably bigoted.
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 07-26-2016 at 04:10.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  17. #617
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    I guess I kinda see your point. I just never really thought of the intermarriage debate as a political one, just as a religious one.
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  18. #618
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Bad press is bad press and it impacts a campaign all the same. The proceedings over Trump University is bad press for Trump and impacts his campaign as well.
    It's not the same. We were talking about how the deck was stacked in favour of one candidate.

    Clinton's bad press is because she was under an FBI investigation.

  19. #619

    Default Re: POTUS thread

    The Bernie or Bust crowd might be called a lot of things, but Quitters ain't one of them

    The DNC lovefest has begun!

    http://wonkette.com/604662/um-yeah-b...thatd-be-great

    and PS
    Sarah Silverman kills it:



    PPS
    Might be the best speech by a first lady:

    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 07-26-2016 at 16:04.
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  20. #620
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    I just don't see it....PA and FL have lots of undecided voters, but in both states the undecideds would have to go 2-1 in Trump's favor to give him the win in those states. And, as this map shows, of all the too close to call states Clinton need only win Florida to be President. Trump, by contrast, practically has to run the table in the "too close to call" states. With Kaine making VA a probable win for Hillary and his Spanish-speaking efforts to harden her support among Latino/a voters and Bernie doing such a strong endorsement (3/4 of Sanders folks were inclined to vote Hillary even before he spoke), I do not think Trump can get the steam up to make it happen.
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  21. #621
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    It's not the same. We were talking about how the deck was stacked in favour of one candidate.
    And Trump is being sued for RICO violations. Maybe not visibly as bad as an FBI investigation but its still serious.

    Im no fan of Clinton, but Im not seeing any hard evidence where the DNC actually rigged anything for her. Was she their preferred candidate? Of course. Did they bad mouth him in internal emails? Yup. Is the bias for Clinton troubling? Yes, but Im not seeing a reason to riot.
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  22. #622
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    There is no hard evidence of the DNC "rigging" anything in her favor because they did not have to do so. The entire set-up (super-delegates etc.) was in place well before Sanders declared with the precise intent of allowing the party leadership to implicitly designate a "leadership's preference" candidate and to thereby have a chilling effect on the open delegate selection process -- which was itself all set up proportionally so that a larger "establishment" candidate could garner 30-40% of the delegates in a state even when they lost -- and the establishment candidate could be presumed to have the greater funding and to be able to compete everywhere.

    All of these factors were in place BEFORE Sanders even decided to run. It is, if anything, a testament to his ability to connect with the progressive wing of the Democrat party that he did as well as he did and actually posed a credible threat. Had he won a few more states and won them bigger he might have poached some super-delegates and changed the result.


    DNC leadership is supposed to avoid the appearance of favoring one nomination candidate over another, but in practice that isn't really possible. At best you can hope that they do not actively attempt to trouble a candidate they dislike. These e-mails clearly reveal that the 'fig-leaf' of impartiality wasn't even being honored in the breach this time around. Fancy them not wanting to have a socialist heading the ticket with all of the fruitbat left wing of the party antagonizing middle America and the South.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 07-26-2016 at 18:56.
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  23. #623
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Agreed to an extent. I support how they cut down the number of super-delegates but I do not support getting rid of them completely as I feel that the party itself should have a say who is nominated.

    But its irrelevant, even if the super-delegate system was completely tossed out, Hillary would have won.
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  24. #624
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    ...But its irrelevant, even if the super-delegate system was completely tossed out, Hillary would have won.
    Possibly, even probably. However we cannot be certain since we do not know how many voters were discouraged from voting for Sanders or even who voted for here simply because that wad of superdelegates gave here a lead that seemed insurmountable.
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  25. #625
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    We also don't know how many primary voters would have stayed home if it wasn't for Sanders who, to his credit, has done a fantastic job in getting people excited about politics. I have friends on my Facebook page who not even a year ago didn't give a flying fig about politics. Now they are posting a lot about it, not just about Bernie but also other issues like climate change and the BLM movement.

    Now the big issue is that the kind of politics that Sanders sold was a fantasy version where a wand can be waved and progress made. As these new people realize that politics is much harder than that some will become seriously disillusioned. We are already seeing that with the Bernie supporters who would rather see Trump elected than Hillary even though that would set back what Bernie stood for in a big way.
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  26. #626
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    This is just so great:



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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    If the DNC had any brains at all (besides the whole email scandal) they wouldnt be bringing out these actresses to talk at the convention, they would be bringing out retired generals to talk about the importance of NATO and stuff and how bad it would be for our national security if Trump was elected. But they arent, so its yet another fumble in a long line of fumbles. This election isnt focused on social issues. Its focused on the economy and security and Im not sure why the DNC isnt focusing more about that.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 07-27-2016 at 03:40.
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  28. #628
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Well Hillary vs Trump it is, not that I particulary like him but please whatever not Hillary as it affects us Europeans as well. Trump is pretty harmless I think, he doesn't need any money from anyone as he's got enough to not need lobby's and oilstates. Hillary is scary. No you creep from invasion of the body snatchers, there is no old friend in the crowd so stop pointing that finger. Fake and oh so corrupt.
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-27-2016 at 06:31.

  29. #629
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Interesting that you say that Trump is pretty harmless for Europe, especially when he would basically wreck NATO.
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  30. #630
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: POTUS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Interesting that you say that Trump is pretty harmless for Europe, especially when he would basically wreck NATO.
    That a problem, Trump isn't interested in pissing of Russia, wants better relationships. The Nato is nothing without America, if America isn't taken for granted then maybe it's a good idea to start giving the military acceptable stuff. No joke, even special forces here who are about to be send somewhere have no ammunition to train with, they have to say 'bang bang' in shooting excersises, all extremily modern tanks were sold because they happened to be worth a lot and the government needed money to safe banks.

    We aren't keeping our promises to the Nato, only a marginal part of the deal is met, Trump saying 'you are on your own now' is good. Enough freeriding, not so unreasonable imo
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-27-2016 at 13:47.

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