POTUS Election thread

[Beskar]

[InsaneApache]

I was just going to post that video.

[Husar]

The one thing that is weird about the video, although I agree in general, is that the right is not always better at debating things than the left is IMO. Whether you talk to a libraul vegan or a die-hard Trump supporter seems to make little difference in terms of the wall you are often about to hit in terms of ability to convince them of anything. Or maybe it's just that I'm a terrible debater.

[Beskar]

The one thing that is weird about the video, although I agree in general, is that the right is not always better at debating things than the left is IMO. Whether you talk to a libraul vegan or a die-hard Trump supporter seems to make little difference in terms of the wall you are often about to hit in terms of ability to convince them of anything. Or maybe it's just that I'm a terrible debater.

It is more about engaging those in the middle. It is nothing to do with debating skill or finesse in the bigger picture, it is more about enticing their imagination. overly simplistic, but the phrase "Make America Great Again" is more appealing than "I am better than the other guy". Then when you look at engagement, "Corporate interests and corruption is polluting this country, lets shake it up" has more appeal than "at least I am not racist.". Then lets look at Brexit, it is similar, "EU is responsible for everything wrong, get rid of Brussels, lets put the Great back into Great Britain", versus "those guys hate polish people, leaving EU will court disastrous consequences". The first one speaks of change and optimistic outlooks to a beleaguered demographic.

The idea you could debate someone on the fringe to adopt your viewpoint is a loss in itself. But by engaging those in the middle, those who can be swayed, then you will get them to support your cause. Remain should have extolled the virtues of what it is like to be European, more than simply say Brexit campaign is hogwash (it was hogwash, but that is a different matter entirely).

[Hooahguy]

Oh the double standard is real:

[edyzmedieval]

Apparently, the proposed Treasury Secretary is Jamie Dimon of Citibank - who is literally the head of Wall Street, alongside Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs.

So... how's that going?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

s

Apparently, the proposed Treasury Secretary is Jamie Dimon of Citibank - who is literally the head of Wall Street, alongside Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs.

So... how's that going?

Citibank Exec would probably be comfortable in working with big numbers, making decisions about where the economy will be headed 6 months down the line, and all the tricks the financial industry uses to hide money.
OR
He's there to grease the skids for the banks to up fees and screw customers as hard as possible while bailing out anyone in the "club" who is having trouble.

[Montmorency]

Well, of course. The Bundy civil protest was a legitimate and peaceful attempt to demonstrate public dissatisfaction with federal policy, unlike those Black Lies pavement [no] who only work to loot and destroy and have no specific grievances.

[Husar]

It is more about engaging those in the middle. It is nothing to do with debating skill or finesse in the bigger picture, it is more about enticing their imagination. overly simplistic, but the phrase "Make America Great Again" is more appealing than "I am better than the other guy". Then when you look at engagement, "Corporate interests and corruption is polluting this country, lets shake it up" has more appeal than "at least I am not racist.". Then lets look at Brexit, it is similar, "EU is responsible for everything wrong, get rid of Brussels, lets put the Great back into Great Britain", versus "those guys hate polish people, leaving EU will court disastrous consequences". The first one speaks of change and optimistic outlooks to a beleaguered demographic.

Yes, just too bad that that doesn't cheer me up at the slightest, because it just sounds more like "we're all robots and most of us very simple ones with only a few buttons to press at that..." than all the things people want to make themselves out to be all the time.
It makes all the sophisticated discussion and politicking seem even more superfluous because one just needs to find the most common button, and I've said myself before that doing something against the wealth divide is the root of many issues.

Now you may ask "but why aren't you happy then if the candidate who claims to do that has won?". And the answer is that this is a mixed bag.
My evil side is happy and thinks that this experiment could go horribly wrong because he either has stupid ideas for how to fix these issues or is not going to help the people anyway and I gloat over the idea that the people will have to drink what they chose. Especially funny with the privatization and poisoning of drinking water in mind that we've actually seen happen already.
My other side, the one that actually laments this decision, simply says that voting for someone who could potentially kill your children by ignoring global warming and who could tank the entire economy, based on the oh-so-legitimate view that you lost your job when your local CO2-spewing, leaky chemical factory closed is maybe perhaps, most certainly still bloody stupid.
Not least of all because the fact that your town only had that one factory as a job provider was the result of your previous behavior as a consumer and voter, but at that point I'm probably stepping over a line once more where people will tell me about the depressing relation of work hours and education and that I can't just demand people to be reasonable or so.
I guess I'm just a silly elitist who is not giving the working man enough credit for constantly thinking that the vultures who let him work long and hard and abandon him for profit are the solution to all his problems. And the orange vulture said he'll fix it all after all.

I guess we will see about the magic of Trumponomics, I feel a bit like what Pannonian always said about Fragony watching an experiment from a relatively safe distance. Except that I didn't encourage this experiment, so if it goes wrong I'm free to gloat I guess, if not I can just pick the cherries and want them here, too.

The idea you could debate someone on the fringe to adopt your viewpoint is a loss in itself.

Even more depressing news about human nature?
If you cannot sway the extremes, aren't you left with conflict/violent resolution or oppression of their views?
Were Stalinists and Nazis right all along? Alex Jones already said the ones who can't agree with the Trump presidency need to be prosecuted because they'll never be silent, maybe he is onto something?

[Montmorency]

Were Stalinists and Nazis right all along?

Churchill noted that democracy seemed superior to the other forms of government that have been tried from time to time. Others more abstractly pointed out that democratic organization emerges and performs best in given sets of material and social conditions such as have predominated in the modern age, and that its continuation or future success is purely contingent.

My suggestion is that there is no such thing as "good" governance or form of government, for more fundamental philosophical reasons and all of this discussion is flapping in the breeze and whistling in the dark. It won't stop us from discussing or advocating, as the intrinsic failure of the human condition is precisely what can frame it. To twist your countryman's words a bit: every value is another suicide.

[Beskar]

Alex Jones already said the ones who can't agree with the Trump presidency need to be prosecuted because they'll never be silent, maybe he is onto something?

I think Alex Jones is talking about his personal experience, when it came to his constant opposition to Obama. The irony in him saying such things is amusing.

[Viking]

And the orange vulture said he'll fix it all after all.

He is the orange wolf.



(...)

[Strike For The South]

Regarding Trumps transition team. Pence is a reprehensible human being committed to undoing the rights of homosexuals. He is basically Ted Cruz without the scruples relating to using government power as a hammer. I'm still not sure I believe all the names that are being floated for cabinet positions, they seem to be worst case scenarios.

if they are real candidates we may be inching closer to a faithless elector scenario and a revolt of the bureaucratic class inside the beltway. Which would be fascinating.

[Husar]

He is the orange wolf.



(...)

That's a very cool link, not that I read very far. There's Quixote talking about First Amendment rights and, if I read this correctly, how they should be curtailed, and then AnnaBoyle gives him the best possible answer:

My best friend's sister makes $95 an hour on the internet.. She has been out of a job for six months but last month her check was $14750 just working on the internet for a few hours. Go this website and click tech tab to start your work...

Amazing, also makes you wonder why people need Trump for jobs...

[Greyblades]

The one thing that is weird about the video, although I agree in general, is that the right is not always better at debating things than the left is IMO. Whether you talk to a libraul vegan or a die-hard Trump supporter seems to make little difference in terms of the wall you are often about to hit in terms of ability to convince them of anything. Or maybe it's just that I'm a terrible debater.

Honestly I'd say you are the best debator out of the left on this board, largely because your wall comes up the least.