MP stats discussion.

**Whitey** · 11-15-2002, 12:39

on that point though, we can change stats while online without reloading MTW, so just use a batch file like in STW...

isn't that what you are asking for?

**Gregoshi** · 11-16-2002, 05:55

The stat swapper program was nice, but even nicer would be a stat swapper built into the MTW so the host could select the stat set, the hosted stat set would be selected for all players and the stat set would download to any players who joined the game but didn't have them. It would be automatic with no thought required except by the host of the game.

For Starcraft, Battle.net would download the map to any players who didn't have the hosted map on their PC. Nice feature.

**LittleGrizzly** · 11-18-2002, 01:25

well the only problem is some loony created stats which made his 16 italian inf unbeatable

**Orda Khan** · 11-18-2002, 12:55

Any new stats used in MP depend on the community. If people won't use them they will soon be forgotten. WE/MI 103 MOD is an example of this, too many could not be bothered to try it no matter how easy it was to swap. From my experience there were a handful of players only who played 103 everyone else carried on their '4 max no ashi' games. 103 did not require game rules because it was so well balanced but still only that handful played it.

The way I see it v1.1 is a huge improvement but there are still issues, mainly the weak archer type units. If these are addressed then I will be very happy as the scissors, paper, stone effect would be reintroduced.

In other words if you can make stats with the flawless balance of STW WE/MI 103 then this game will be truly superb.

.......Orda

**MagyarKhans Cham** · 11-18-2002, 13:24

u look like our Khan Orda, do u wear glasses in real life? If so maybe we can paint them on your avatar

well Orda is correct, so far we changed archery and morale (+2) and actually i cant think of anything more (besides ballistas) or u move onto slippy ice and u risk having to chance more than we ever been able to handle correct.

**AMPage** · 11-19-2002, 01:05

If we are going for balance lets not forget about Byzantine Infantry. I have yet to see a unit at the same cost beat them 1on1. 100 unit size of Byzantine Infantry is just to much for any one unit to eat up.

**Magyar Khan** · 11-19-2002, 01:10

i dont think that will be fixed for the first version amp, so far its +2 morale and archery improvments and a bit arba degrading.

cant we enlist u for some testing?

**Kocmoc** · 11-19-2002, 09:54

hi aaron i ful lagree with u, but some problems are that many guys want some of the "historical correct" feeling.

so we search for compromise at this points.

but ofcourse ur right

here is my email, plz mail mail.

mike.friedrich@primacom.net

thx

mike

**AMPage** · 11-19-2002, 15:00

That "historical correct" feeling is also making many units online useless. The only time I see them being used are by newbies. When you become a vet to MTW online I guess they are just for show.

Anyway, I tried your stats and missiles seem fine, I might bring a few to battle now.

The +2 to moral is alright I guess, but it makes it harder to create chain routs. I love chain routs, I even get called a cheater sometimes because of it.

**DthB4Dishonour** · 11-19-2002, 21:37

Hi all,

I respectfully disagree with Amp. I feel we should generalize our changes to the game. If we start changing every factions special units then we will have no one happy and no one will use the stats. I like the +2 morale and changes done to the range units.

Only thing left is to tweak all the cav range (camel range too) a bit. I think maybe an additional increase in morale since they are supposedly trained to harrass enemy at rear and flanks I think they should have a higher morale. As it is now with v1.1 they waver to quickly when shooting enemy flanks and going to enemy rear is impossible. Maybe increase there accuracy or ammo a bit more too.

I say this to make cav range a useful unit (if you want them) and feel that they would give all of us the possibilty of developing and fighting with yet another style.

Paul

**Cheetah** · 11-19-2002, 21:55

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (AMPage @ Nov. 18 2002,18:05)]If we are going for balance lets not forget about Byzantine Infantry. I have yet to see a unit at the same cost beat them 1on1. 100 unit size of Byzantine Infantry is just to much for any one unit to eat up.

Dont forget the terrible morale they have. I wouldnt take them for a 4v4 game. You can probably win the first battle but not the second and lets not talk about the third. Unless, of course, you can create a chain rout

**LittleGrizzly** · 11-20-2002, 06:59

i agree with cheetah there they may be good but have a low morale which can be thier downfall

**AMPage** · 11-20-2002, 08:04

I know a lot of people online use them, that's cool, i'm not complaining or anything. I was just saying that they can beat anything 1on1, which means, mainly the only way to beat them is flanking/rear attacks.

My personal opinion i'd rather face 16 cavalry then 6+ byzantine infantry. It's harder for me to find ways to break a 100unit size byz inf that dosn't need to be on hold formation then a 40unit size cav that has a few counters.

**Nobunaga0611** · 11-20-2002, 09:44

I agree with Amp. Maybe a slightly higher unit cost for the Byz. Infantry, but not too much The Byzantines don't have many other units in terms of spear or even shock that are currently as effective as other factions. True, you've got the Varangians, but they aren't in the late period. You could always take some Spearmen, which I have done, but due to the increase in prices recently, taking a v4 spearmen unit costs just over 1000 florins, and this is one of the only choices you have in a late period game since they would get torn up vs. most other units on EQUAL STANDING (either same valour, or close to the same price) during the late period.

You could argue the same thing for Russia, but I feel this is why the Byz. Inf. only need a slight price adjustment imo. I don't know what to say in reguards to Russia, their obvious strong point is the Boyars, and possibly other units I haven't thought about but don't really care to right now.

As far as horse archers are concerned...their morale is a problem, but I believe they should stay that way. Any added power/amount of arrows you add to them will far outweigh an increase in morale. I might be wrong, but I always figured that their basic use was to simply harass units. If they get into a missle battle, back them off. That way you save your horses, arrows, and their morale when re-engaging...due to not losing horses and making them worried about casualties. Some of them w/2 or even 1 valour upgrades can be used on an enemies flank under the right conditions. If you make it so they can simply charge a unit like a regular cav, then I think they start having more uses than they should. Their range is fine, and with the new stats, might have a *few* more arrows than maybe they should. What is it w/the new stats, 40? when it was maybe 28 or so before. I think something like 35 would be good....if these are the correct numbers. Just an opinion though.

**baz** · 11-21-2002, 07:33

with reference to the current discussion and the one in this threadbyz thread

could someone put the stats for byz inf and order foot in this thread for all to see the comparison? maybe jan heavy inf also?

**ShadeHonestus** · 11-21-2002, 09:04

Unit stats are now available at the War Academy for everyone's viewing.

v1.0, v1.1, and the Clan Society Version are all presented there.

Top 20 rankings are now per version, minimum 3 posts for a unit to be ranked... along with many many other changes.

**Nobunaga0611** · 11-21-2002, 10:20

Very nice Honestus

I just have a few questions, not criticisms, just things I'm curious about:

1) Was the Janissary Archers reload time changed to 10 for a reason?

2) Would it be better to give all foot archers the same amount of ammo as Horse Archers? I noticed that H.A. have 2 arrows more, and a quicker reload time. Were these meant to offset each other?

3) Do we want units like Bulgarian Brigands and Longbowmen to continue to be the ones who reload faster than other units, like they did originally? As it is now, they're the same as other foot archers.

**ShadeHonestus** · 11-21-2002, 16:45

Good questions nobunaga. However, at this point I am merely the messenger as I've been too busy programming to get too deep into stat-adjusting.

This question is probably best asked at the "Clan Society" council link...then stats discussion...

**MagyarKhans Cham** · 11-21-2002, 16:47

Clan Society version? for what i know off Kocmoc just finished his version 1.15 after the test version 1.12.

in short

morale +2 for all units
archers do more kills, slightly more arrows
arbalesters moved to late era

is that right Orlok Kocmoc?

**Kocmoc** · 11-21-2002, 17:48

its right, but we did 1 more major change

as some gyus started moaning about the longbows where to weak now.... i raised the accuracy for the longbows....
+0,05 accuracy. this wont change something but well, i hope ur happy now.

koc

**ShadeHonestus** · 11-21-2002, 22:39

Any future changes within the clan society stats can be updated at the war academy withing 10 seconds...no problem in further changes, make all you want. Its completely dynamic and we just have to change the stat in one place and the entire site has that stat updated....

**Michael the Great** · 11-22-2002, 16:16

Maan,I try 2 access the waracademy but it alwayz sez that the server is down or is not reponding..what could be the problem here??? Plz help.

**ShadeHonestus** · 11-23-2002, 16:32

Odd, I never have that problem. Anybody else experiencing it?
Make sure javascripting is on...
Only other thing I can think of is if the SQL Server was too busy, but I don't think that would happen...

**Michael the Great** · 11-23-2002, 17:24

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (ShadeHonestus @ Nov. 23 2002,09:32)]Odd, I never have that problem. Anybody else experiencing it?
Make sure javascripting is on...
Only other thing I can think of is if the SQL Server was too busy, but I don't think that would happen...

Hmmm..well it still doesn't work,but u know what's odd?....that some time ago it worked

Ahhh,and it was such a fine site...

**ShadeHonestus** · 11-23-2002, 18:12

what link are typing in and or going to?

**Michael the Great** · 11-23-2002, 19:20

www.totalwarassembly.com/waracademy.cfm

**Orda Khan** · 11-24-2002, 14:48

Well I can't find my post on Byzantines so I will moan here about their stats. I have seen an army online containing 10 Byzantine infantry

Is this what we want to see? how boring is that? If winning means so much to ppl that they ruin the fun of the game then the only thing to do is kick them from your games

.......Orda

**MagyarKhans Cham** · 11-24-2002, 16:36

come here junior khan

**FasT** · 11-25-2002, 17:06

LOL

@

**Katasaki Hirojima** · 11-25-2002, 22:35

Well, Byzantine infantry are the ONLY decent unit the Byzantines have. Varangians cost to much. I'd probably use less though, just to escape the price hike after four units..liiike 4 Byz Inf, 4 Byz Cav and 8 Kataphaktoi..

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