After years of pain and humiliation Greece may exit Euro AND EU... PVC says...

[Sarmatian]

It can amaze just how economists sometimes don't understand economy.

I'm backing Picketty on this one - restructure and write off a chunk of the internal European debt.
After that, find some big projects (20bn, 50bn, a 100bn euros) that can kickstart the economy.

[Brenus]

"So if I have a relatively low income and already took a credit of 100k€, and then I go to my bank, will they give me another credit of 20k€?". Yeap if what they can recover after your bankruptcy is old unwashed clothing...
They will go for a plan which will allow you to live and reimburse the debt.

However, for states and Banks, it is different.

If your are a bank, the Government back you up, make a private debt (yours) a public debt (tax payers) then imposes drastic cuts and pretends/convinces that the population is guilty of spending too much, and imposes austerity on the poorest. You can keep your bonuses, houses, change mistresses and cars as you were, oops, sorry, are, one of the best and you will go somewhere else if someone want to take the money you stole, ooops again, earned in selling dubious products or toxic assets. Do not fear jail or even some Court Proceedings, the Government will not allow this to happen.
If you are a State (a big one as Germany in 1953) or with a powerful protector (Iraq after USA invasion) your debt is written off.It never existed anyway. Your debt became odious as the one of Cuba after USA invasion (I know, I know).
The troubles start only if you are a small State, and you are from another political agenda than the ones that precisely put your country where you are, and to whom the same shouting at you now gave the monies without a whisper or a question.
It is not economy, it is politic.
All know Greece cannot repay, but with a signature on a treaty that every one knows can't be honoured, money would been given to Greece in order to pay the Submarines Greece bought from Germany (as part of the former agreement) and the Rafales to France. And Greece debt would have rise-up again, as it did with the same plan 5 years ago.
I almost forgot all this crisis is due to comfortable pensions and lazy civil servants having 2 jobs who could access free money to buy swimming pools.

[Gilrandir]

After that, find some big projects (20bn, 50bn, a 100bn euros) that can kickstart the economy.

These bn euros have been given more than once yet the economy is still where it was. How can you be sure the new bns would do it this time?

I almost forgot all this crisis is due to comfortable pensions and lazy civil servants having 2 jobs who could access free money to buy swimming pools.

I know that Greek engine drivers were (or still are?) paid a 5000$ bonus yearly for washing their hands.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johan-..._b_935428.html
I believe other professions could (or still can?) boast of similar incomes. If suchlike bonuses are what they are fighting for to keep, how can they get out of the hole dug by reckless wage policies?

[Fragony]

You could as well call it a hostile takeover, deal is made. Sorry Greeks, it wasn't me. Any coincidence that eurocrats have interests in the things you have to hand over to the EU.

nomnomnom

[Sir Moody]

These bn euros have been given more than once yet the economy is still where it was. How can you be sure the new bns would do it this time?

Those payments were to balance the books not to fund the economy - Samatian is essentially suggesting the EU should cut out the Greek government and fund some big projects directly to try and kickstart the economy.

[Fragony]

Those payments were to balance the books not to fund the economy .

Ya, it's a covert baillout at the expense of the Greek economy and the Greece people, it's not right to do this. Many things go wrong there but at least have some pity for those who's fault it isn't. Wrong investments, gob them up yourself, there is always a risk.

adition, why the que force a country to make the retirement age higher when there is a huge youth-unemployment? Is that stupid or is it stupid, pick one. And can't take all their means and expect them to recover. It's so... whatever. I don't want Greece to leave the EU mind you, I want the Netherlands to, most of us do.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So - now the Americans are taking notice: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...seid=auto&_r=2

"Suppose you consider Tsipras an incompetent twerp. Suppose you dearly want to see Syriza out of power. Suppose, even, that you welcome the prospect of pushing those annoying Greeks out of the euro.
Even if all of that is true, this Eurogroup list of demands is madness. The trending hashtag ThisIsACoup is exactly right. This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness, complete destruction of national sovereignty, and no hope of relief. It is, presumably, meant to be an offer Greece can’t accept; but even so, it’s a grotesque betrayal of everything the European project was supposed to stand for."

[rory_20_uk]

Yadition, why the que force a country to make the retirement age higher when there is a huge youth-unemployment? Is that stupid or is it stupid, pick one. And can't take all their means and expect them to recover. It's so... whatever. I don't want Greece to leave the EU mind you, I want the Netherlands to, most of us do.

There are not a finite number of jobs, nor are there that many jobs only Greeks can do. So, increasing retirement age reduces state costs and does not block jobs that would then automatically fall to the young. The reason there are no jobs is their appalling infrastructure, sclerotic job market and lack of industries that create anything.

[Crandar]

So, an agreement was signed, which is inevitably and unsurprisingly much worse (for Greece) than the revious ones. Well, Greece and her government got what they deserved. Apparently, the Nazi Germans did not succumb to the stratagems of Leonidas and his South Movement.
I wonder how the sheeple that cheered at the night of the referendum will react now that their "leftist" leader abandoned them.