Another terrible race motivated attack.

[Greyblades]

No, it's a clerical error.

Spend a few hours on it. You will find that it is present almost everywhere. Blacks get harsher punishments than whites for comparable crimes. They get paid less for comparable work. They pay more interest for credits...

I have been told such plenty of times, it's just that in havent seen proof, just repeated assertations. That would be fine if I could trust those making that assertion but recent events have taught me otherwise.

One of my doubts are; if the law allows black people to be paid less for comparative work than whites, why on earth would unemployment ever be a problem in black communities? Indeed if american companies could get cheaper labour from african americans, wouldnt they go out of thier way to exploit such an advantage?

Now if this is illegal, yet happens anyway, well, I still require proof that it happens in any signficant degree and is being allowed to happen with impunity.

[Sarmatian]

I have been told such plenty of times, it's just that in havent seen proof, just repeated assertations. That would be fine if I could trust those making that assertion but recent events have taught me otherwise.

http://freakonomics.com/2011/10/06/e...hite-wage-gap/

Blacks have lower starting pay than whites of comparable skill and experience. It get's better the longer a black employee stays with the same employer. If they switch jobs, they again start with lower income than whites, which gets better (closer to white employes but almost never equal) the longer they stay on that job.

This doesn't even take into affect how much harder it is for blacks to be promoted to higher positions.

One of my doubts are; if the law allows black people to be paid less for comparative work than whites, why on earth would unemployment ever be a problem in black communities? Indeed if american companies could get cheaper labour from african americans, wouldnt they go out of thier way to exploit such an advantage?

Because racism? The very thing we're talking about?

Now if this is illegal, yet happens anyway, well, I still require proof that it happens in any signficant degree and is being allowed to happen with impunity.

It's not illegal. Private companies don't have to have pay every worker the exact same amount. This is especially true for higher position ie. managers/supervisors/directors/heads of departments.

[Greyblades]

http://freakonomics.com/2011/10/06/e...hite-wage-gap/

Hrm it used this to come to the conclusion that "black men in America earned 74.5 percent of a typical white man’s wage; black women earned 69.6 percent."
The table presented is a basic median table, one that should be very familiar to those following the woman's wage gap debate.

Like in that debate this table is usless: without differentiating between individual jobs we have no idea if it is caused by A) discrimiation of the employers paying non white workers less than white workers for the same labour or B) on average non white workers apply for or work in jobs that pay less than the average white worker applys for.

If POC's were being discriminated against on every level or simply going for lower paying jobs at a higher rate than white people are, we wouldnt be able to tell as table's results would be the same.

Blacks have lower starting pay than whites of comparable skill and experience. It get's better the longer a black employee stays with the same employer. If they switch jobs, they again start with lower income than whites, which gets better (closer to white employes but almost never equal) the longer they stay on that job.

The article estimates that Blacks have a "7 percent lower reservation wage than their white counterparts at a comparable job that demands a comparable skill level."

Reservation wage's meaning: "In labor economics, the reservation wage is the lowest wage rate at which a worker would be willing to accept a particular type of job. A job offer involving the same type of work and the same working conditions, but at a lower wage rate, would be rejected by the worker."

It tells us what the workers were willing to settle for, not what the employers were offering.

This doesn't even take into affect how much harder it is for blacks to be promoted to higher positions.

How so?

Because racism? The very thing we're talking about?

You think all of the companies in the USA would pass up such cheap labour because they are racist?

It's not illegal. Private companies don't have to have pay every worker the exact same amount. This is especially true for higher position ie. managers/supervisors/directors/heads of departments.

So how do you come to the conclusion that POC's are being discriminated against because of thier race instead of thier average ability? It could simply be that POC's are being underpaid in comparison because the education they received was of a lesser standard than the average white person's.

[Gilrandir]

IQ measures IQ, not intelligence, and it's flaws are very well documented, especially with cultural bias.

IQ tests are not obligatory nor really common in Ukraine, so I had never had it for any utilitarian purpose. When I did it just for fun (without any preliminary training or awareness of what I would face), I found that it tried to gauge "math type" of intelligence which, to my mind, disadvantages a "humanities intelligent" person.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think there are quite a few examples of reorganization that overall reduced friction within a nation. Look at the UK with both the Magna Carta and its derivatives, and the formation of the Church of England.

Well, John signed Magna Carter at sword point and it and its "derivatives" continues to be an issue until Charles II took the throne in the Restoration after the brutal oppression of the Republic. As to the Church of England - many protestants and Catholics were burned at the stake during its birth and Catholicism continued to be officially suppressed until about a hundred and fifty years ago - so those were not "peaceful" changes.

We remember the more violent changes that have occurred as that is often how we measure history. But there has been a lot of changes that have occurred over the last hundred years that haven't required killing off the old school followers.

That's true, but only in the last hundred - really the last fifty - years.

In Australia we managed to include aboriginals as people in 1967 by referendum. We didn't then need to mass murder the opponents to the referendum to change things.

This is also true, but Aboriginals were never sub-human slaves and are still discriminated against today - a lot of them also still lead wretched lives having been forcibly removed from their hunting grounds onto reservations.

[Sarmatian]

Hrm it used this to come to the conclusion that "black men in America earned 74.5 percent of a typical white man’s wage; black women earned 69.6 percent."
The table presented is a basic median table, one that should be very familiar to those following the woman's wage gap debate.

Like in that debate this table is usless: without differentiating between individual jobs we have no idea if it is caused by A) discrimiation of the employers paying non white workers less than white workers for the same labour or B) on average non white workers apply for or work in jobs that pay less than the average white worker applys for.

If POC's were being discriminated against on every level or simply going for lower paying jobs at a higher rate than white people are, we wouldnt be able to tell as table's results would be the same.

I don't know how carefully you read the article. The article is about the scientific study that show that black earn less than whites for comparable jobs while having comparable skill, experience and education.

That "black men in America earned 74.5 percent of a typical white man’s wage; black women earned 69.6 percent." is just an opening statement and later it goes on to explain one of the reasons why it is so.

The article estimates that Blacks have a "7 percent lower reservation wage than their white counterparts at a comparable job that demands a comparable skill level."

Reservation wage's meaning: "In labor economics, the reservation wage is the lowest wage rate at which a worker would be willing to accept a particular type of job. A job offer involving the same type of work and the same working conditions, but at a lower wage rate, would be rejected by the worker."

It tells us what the workers were willing to settle for, not what the employers were offering.

One of many points. The most important is "Throughout their research, the authors verified a story arc in which employers discriminate against blacks in terms of initial wage..."

and "The study shows that although the black-white wage gap widens by .9 percentage points per year of potential labor market experience..."

How so?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...cans/16606121/

"In the same high-skilled positions such as computer programmers and software developers, Asians make $8,146 less than whites and blacks $3,656 less than whites, according to the report from the American Institute for Economic Research."

You think all of the companies in the USA would pass up such cheap labour because they are racist?

They don't see it that way, there's hidden and open bias. Take our resident racist, Kadagar. He wouldn't employ a black person because he believes they lack work ethic and are less intelligent. In his opinion, white worker would be more productive and thus a better option, even with higher salary. That would be open bias. There's hidden or subconscious bias, in which the employer would be subconsciously discriminating against blacks.

So how do you come to the conclusion that POC's are being discriminated against because of thier race instead of thier average ability? It could simply be that POC's are being underpaid in comparison because the education they received was of a lesser standard than the average white person's.

That is the standard racist response. They're paid less because they're less educated, lack work ethic or aren't as intelligent. That's why I didn't want to talk about overall gap, but specifically about wage gap for comparable jobs.

You can also read about discrimination when receiving benefits, in courts, when dealing with the police and so on...

[rvg]

We can't seriously talk about having achieved equality in America until a black man becomes president.

[Beskar]

They don't see it that way, there's hidden and open bias. Take our resident racist, Kadagar. He wouldn't employ a black person because he believes they lack work ethic and are less intelligent.

There is a employer on this forum who confessed to throwing applications in the bin due to having 'immigrant' names' and said they wouldn't have employed another from the forum due to their name, even though they are not a immigrant in the country. (Their father is). It is rather sad these things happen.

You can also read about discrimination when receiving benefits, in courts, when dealing with the police and so on...

Few cases in the UK such as Stephen Lawrence case by the police, even the David Bennett inquiry within the NHS. They are disgusting examples of a certain progressive's rational logical-based society in action.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There is a employer on this forum who confessed to throwing applications in the bin due to having 'immigrant' names' and said they wouldn't have employed another forum due to their name, even though they are not a immigrant in the country. (Their father is). It is rather sad these things happen.



Few cases in the UK such as Stephen Lawrence case by the police, even the David Bennett inquiry within the NHS. They are disgusting examples of a certain progressive's rational logical-based society in action.

You mean "Frag said..." don't you? Also, wasn't it Hax he said he wouldn't employ?

Let's not insinuate if it's a matter of public record, eh?

As to the other - I'm sorry but Stepehn Lawrence, a tragedy though it was, was almost a quarter of a century ago now.. It's not a bad example but it needs to be backed up by more recent ones.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sarmatian,

First of all, people can have the same job and qualifications, but yet they don't work the same. Heck, compare me to the sad **** sitting next to me in the teacher's lounge..

We have the same qualifications.
We have the same job.

Her kids score below standard on national tests and she has a lot of unruly pupils.

My kids score WELL above standard and I have the only class without a single pupil sent to the principal.

Is it just because I have a good class? Probably not, as the results were the same with the class before... And before that...



Now, I earn more than her. By quite some.

Is it because:

A) She is arab and I am white.
B) She is a woman and I am a male.
C) She doesn't do as good a job as I.

Hmmm, tricky question, no?


My point is, we can't just look at figures and say "blacks earn less than they should".

How come it's so hard for you to even have the IDEA that they might earn less because they do a less good job? As have been mentioned over and over again in this thread: IF blacks did a comparable job for lower salary, for sure companies on a free market would jump on the chance!!

Yet they don't... Why?

Oh yes... "racism"....

I ask again: Can you separate racism from life experience?

I was very immigrant friendly growing up, in my teens, and in my very early twenties... HOWEVER, life experience has made me think less of Africans generally. Why? Because they so often have let me down, in various situations.






See, a wellfare society is built on the idea that you and I... Your family and my family... My town and your town... All have a history of working together and trying to build a for us functional society.

This leads to a belief that when hard times comes, they will act towards me in a socially acceptable way, just as I would support them when they are hit.

Now: Insert a black woman screaming about more wellfare for her single-mom nine kids while she lives on 35 square meters... Imagine she raise them really ill... Imagine she wrecks the shared laundry room... Imagine her kids are using the bushes on the playground as their toilet (not just beeing, mind you).

Is this a person I want to lean on when the hard times comes? Nope. And hence blacks don't work in a wellfare society (other racial groups do though, so it's not about WHITE PWR).

Throw in some blacks with no history of working together, with cultural clashes left and right, and yes... You will see "racism" rise.

I ask again though, what's life experience and what's racism? Again, I have started to frown on blacks in western society because of what I have experienced by being around blacks... NOT because I was raised that way or taught that way.

On the contrary, my whole family and general workplace more or less look for the tar and feathers whenever immigration gets mentioned in anything but positive ways.

I for one would SURELY hire a swede before a black if they had equal qualifications. Why? Because the swedish person have an extra benefit: Me assuming he will act in accordance with our culture when hard times come.




About IQ... Yes IQ isn't the same as academic ability... With that said, there is a STRONG connection between the two. Also tests have been done to the genetical levels... And know what, when they checked what genes make people excel in school, it exactly corresponded with the results of IQ tests...

Asians being the smartest, whites in the middle, blacks in the far back end of the scale.

So yes, even though IQ in and of itself isn't enough to get a clear picture, we still HAVE the complete picture.


WHITES. ARE. NOT. AS. INTELLIGENT. AS. EAST. ASIANS.

I can take that fact, I have no problem with that fact.

But DARE say anything realistic about blacks, and the "nazi" baseball bat will hit you at once, from well meaning but utterly stupid people.



Husar,

I can once again point to a myriad of evidence of blacks being more stupid than whites, or east asians... Can you find anything, like any research at all, that would confirm that blacks are just as intelligent as east asians - or even whites?

I ask the same question again then...

Can you show any study saying blacks are as intelligent as others? Heck, can you find a study saying whites are as intelligent as east asians?

Again the PC side is just full of empty words...





Also, if we are on the subject of "horrible race motivated attacks"... Does anyone know how often whites kill blacks, compared to blacks killing whites in the US?

I have no idea, might look it up later... But I am pretty sure this school murder on blacks did absolutely nothing to change the statistics, and I am sure the statistics clearly say blacks attack whites WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more often than the other way around.

What do I base it on? My experience with blacks, and whites... Both in Europe and over the world...

Am I even wrong?

[Beskar]

As to the other - I'm sorry but Stepehn Lawrence, a tragedy though it was, was almost a quarter of a century ago now.. It's not a bad example but it needs to be backed up by more recent ones.

It was an example of what institutional racism is, doesn't need to be more recent for that purpose.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It was an example of what institutional racism is, doesn't need to be more recent for that purpose.

Except that it may no longer be relevant to the UK.

You could argue that there's still institutional racism against Blacks in the UK, but you could also argue it's the result of profiling. It's rather like Arabs being stopped at airports - there certainly are white jihadi terrorists but there are more arab ones.

[Fragony]

There is a employer on this forum who confessed to throwing applications in the bin due to having 'immigrant' names' and said they wouldn't have employed another from the forum due to their name, even though they are not a immigrant in the country. (Their father is). It is rather sad these things happen

Won't denie I did, but please consider, you have no defence against the unlimited funds that come into play if they cast discriminatus. Sorry if I just avoided the problems I could have gotten myself into, why volunteer to have them? I wasn't an employer by the way I was looking for staff for others

[Sarmatian]

Sarmatian,

First of all, people can have the same job and qualifications, but yet they don't work the same. Heck, compare me to the sad **** sitting next to me in the teacher's lounge..

We have the same qualifications.
We have the same job.

Her kids score below standard on national tests and she has a lot of unruly pupils.

My kids score WELL above standard and I have the only class without a single pupil sent to the principal.

Is it just because I have a good class? Probably not, as the results were the same with the class before... And before that...



Now, I earn more than her. By quite some.

Is it because:

A) She is arab and I am white.
B) She is a woman and I am a male.
C) She doesn't do as good a job as I.

Hmmm, tricky question, no?

That doesn't mean anything except that you're better than her. I'm not arguing that every individual is equally good at every job.

My point is, we can't just look at figures and say "blacks earn less than they should".

How come it's so hard for you to even have the IDEA that they might earn less because they do a less good job? As have been mentioned over and over again in this thread: IF blacks did a comparable job for lower salary, for sure companies on a free market would jump on the chance!!

Yet they don't... Why?

Oh yes... "racism"....

I ask again: Can you separate racism from life experience?

I was very immigrant friendly growing up, in my teens, and in my very early twenties... HOWEVER, life experience has made me think less of Africans generally. Why? Because they so often have let me down, in various situations.

Because life experience is poor substitute for big picture.

Throw in some blacks with no history of working together, with cultural clashes left and right, and yes... You will see "racism" rise.

I ask again though, what's life experience and what's racism? Again, I have started to frown on blacks in western society because of what I have experienced by being around blacks... NOT because I was raised that way or taught that way.

On the contrary, my whole family and general workplace more or less look for the tar and feathers whenever immigration gets mentioned in anything but positive ways.

I for one would SURELY hire a swede before a black if they had equal qualifications

. Why? Because the swedish person have an extra benefit: Me assuming he will act in accordance with our culture when hard times come.

And this here children, is the example of racism, which gives you an answer to your question why companies don't hire black people to lower cost.

About IQ... Yes IQ isn't the same as academic ability... With that said, there is a STRONG connection between the two. Also tests have been done to the genetical levels... And know what, when they checked what genes make people excel in school, it exactly corresponded with the results of IQ tests...

Asians being the smartest, whites in the middle, blacks in the far back end of the scale.

So yes, even though IQ in and of itself isn't enough to get a clear picture, we still HAVE the complete picture.

Entire point of racial IQ fails so hard when you take into account that black people scoring higher on IQ as they're getting more access to higher and better education. So, either they've improved genetically in one or two generations, or the idea how certain "races" have lower or higher IQ needs to be put to rest.

WHITES. ARE. NOT. AS. INTELLIGENT. AS. EAST. ASIANS.

Bollox.

I can take that fact, I have no problem with that fact.

But DARE say anything realistic about blacks, and the "nazi" baseball bat will hit you at once, from well meaning but utterly stupid people.

Realistic meaning racist in this case.

[Beskar]

Won't denie I did, but please consider, you have no defence against the unlimited funds that come into play if they cast discriminatus. Sorry if I just avoided the problems I could have gotten myself into, why volunteer to have them? I wasn't an employer by the way I was looking for staff for others

If I remember correctly, you said it was in the past and you regretted it anyway. Wasn't trying to make a shot against you, just saying that the practice was real.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sarmatian,

So you do NOT argue that everyone is equal at their job, yet you expect everyone to be paid equally for their job?

Uuuuuuuuuuh, I don't think you fully grasped how the work market function.


Also, you mean that life experience is a poor substitute for a big picture?

How is that relevant? If enough people have a LIFE EXPERIENCE of blacks not being what you should bet on in an intellectual arena or on the work market, it does become the big picture, no?

I mean, enough people who look down on black society and it will be a problem at large, you have to agree with this, right?

Now, here is where we differ:

Your look: It's because of racism.
My look: It's because people in a free market often prefer not to have blacks around because of life experience.

Is that what is called "institutionalised racism"? That people have had different experiences with different cultural groups?

Eye opener, as long as it is DIFFERENT cultural groups, people will be rather more sceptical to cultures other than their own. That's just how humans work, and there's nothing you or any well meaning person can do about it.

And why are we sceptical? Because other cultures does absolutely HORRIBLE things that we could never even imagine us doing ourselves.

So yeah I dislike black culture at large. Sue me?




Furthermore, your example of what "racism" is - seriously that someone would prefer to hire someone from the same culture? Why would they not? I trust a Swede or Austrian wayyyyy more than I would a random black, or gypsy, or whatever...

Culture is all about expecting someone to act in a socially and acceptable predictable way when hardships come... I don't trust effin africans to act in a for me socially predictable and acceptable way. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRICANS AND FROM ANOTHER CULTURE, geez, what's so hard to understand?




So you call bollox on east asians being smarter than whites... Source please? You kind of come of as ill read up on the topic here... To be honest...

East asians are smarter, live with it. Heck, I just read an article about asians applying to top notch schools and universities have to DOWNGRADE their "asianess" to get in...

There was also this indian wannabe doctor who decided to apply as a black person, so that he could get into medical school...

Basically, no matter how much we hold black people in their hands and throw benefits at them, they STILL don't seem to bring much in return to society.



Also, you have to learn to separate racism from realism...


*if anything, I would be an east asian racist from what I have written, and let's face it, it's not like I am*

[Kadagar_AV]

Husar, I will ask you again then... Third time now...

I wrote:

I can once again point to a myriad of evidence of blacks being more stupid than whites, or east asians... Can you find anything, like any research at all, that would confirm that blacks are just as intelligent as east asians - or even whites?

I still wonder.

[Husar]

My point is, we can't just look at figures and say "blacks earn less than they should".

Nothing but empty words.

Can you show any study saying blacks are as intelligent as others? Heck, can you find a study saying whites are as intelligent as east asians?

You mean a study with figures? But we can't just look at figures and say...

Again the PC side is just full of empty words...

Words or figures now?
Why would I even bother with a serious reply in such discussions if you're going to declare it nonsensical or the wrong type of reeply anyway? I'm too lever to fall for that. Just like Greybabe you simply declare all evidence against your point nonsensical somehow.
I'd rather remind you that your rhetoric reminds me of Hitler.

[Beskar]

Husar, I will ask you again then... Third time now...

Here you go.

[Kadagar_AV]

Nothing but empty words.

Really? That's how you think you win an argument 2015? Geez.

You mean a study with figures? But we can't just look at figures and say...

Actually, by now I am happy if you give me just ANY inclination that you even had a basic grasp of what you are talking about.

Stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill waiting for anything even remotely close to showing blacks, are as intelligent as east asians... Heck, I even threw a bone at you saying it's enough if you can show that whites are as intelligent as east asians...

But you can't do that, can you? Instead you hide behind "socioeconomical factors", without a thought of why those socioeconomical factors might be.

Again: Culture dictates a LOT when it comes to what person you get as a result.

Words or figures now?

You can do a damn hand painting pre-school style if that helps your argument, for all I care. Do words, do figures... Heck, do your absolutely damned best to show that blacks are intellectually on par.

I dare you.

Why would I even bother with a serious reply in such discussions if you're going to declare it nonsensical or the wrong type of reeply anyway? I'm too lever to fall for that. Just like Greybabe you simply declare all evidence against your point nonsensical somehow.
I'd rather remind you that your rhetoric reminds me of Hitler.

Ok...

A) You have not come with any evidence. Like none. What so ever. Ever.

If you however do come up with some, after being asked repeatedly, I will of course judge it by its worth.

Soooo, where is it?



B) I think you are the person on this board who most often reference to Hitler... Is this your german version of a penis complex, or what?

And as a sidenote: Anyone who brings up hitler in an argument automatically lose, so yeah... There is that as well.

You've been Godwine'd.

It's kind of like being Rick *n* Rolled, only that you really should know better .

SOURCE

[Husar]

Again the PC side is just full of empty words...

Really? That's how you think you win an argument 2015? Geez.

You can do a damn hand painting pre-school style if that helps your argument, for all I care. Do words, do figures... Heck, do your absolutely damned best to show that blacks are intellectually on par.

Do a search then.

[Kadagar_AV]

Really? That's how you think you win an argument 2015? Geez.

So we went down on the level of tossing an argument back without in any so way defending our own position?

Last I was on that level of thinking was in kindergarten... How's your hand painting coming along?

I am eagerly waiting for the result...

Do a search then.

I have.

It shows blacks are more stupid than whites.
It also shows whites are more stupid than asians.

If you have different results when you google search you might want to share it.

[Husar]

So we went down on the level of tossing an argument back without in any so way defending our own position?

Last I was on that level of thinking was in kindergarten... How's your hand painting coming along?

I am eagerly waiting for the result...

I pointed out that you are contradicting yourself, but I'm sorry if that is beyond your comprehension.
Please continue to deride me, I'm enjoying it.

I have.

It shows blacks are more stupid than whites.
It also shows whites are more stupid than asians.

If you have different results when you google search you might want to share it.

Not google search, I've already explained my point several times, no need to repeat it every time.
HoreTore has also pointed out in great detail why you are wrong a while ago.
That you seem to reset to your default racism every once in a while is not my problem and I'm not going to do the sysiphos work of hunting sources and old posts for you every time.

[Kadagar_AV]

I pointed out that you are contradicting yourself, but I'm sorry if that is beyond your comprehension.
Please continue to deride me, I'm enjoying it.

Actually I am deriding your position... As it is, to say the least, full of fluff... And to be honest, idiotic and masochistic. You Germans really hate yourselves for being white these post WWII days, don't you?

Not google search, I've already explained my point several times, no need to repeat it every time.
HoreTore has also pointed out in great detail why you are wrong a while ago.
That you seem to reset to your default racism every once in a while is not my problem and I'm not going to do the sysiphos work of hunting sources and old posts for you every time.

If your repeated it several times, I am sure you can do it again to show the board what a fool I am... No?

HoreTores arguments I honestly don't give much care for... He was a Norwegian living in the best of societies with a VERY low immigration... In his boots (as I were before) I would have had the same position.

Heck, I even often HAD the same position as him if you look back to where I started on these boards some 12 years ago...


But know what?

HoreTore in Norway kept his look on things. basically because he haven't been around blacks or arabs.

I on the other hand moved on, and the country went to hell, so that I was and am surrounded by blacks and arabs. And know what? I do not like it.

Again, it's absolutely not because I was raised that way, it's because my life experience has shown me that you can rely on white people WAY way more.

Heck, I don't have a problem with Russians or South Americans either...

So call me racist all you want, I still claim I am a "culturalist"... And sure, sometimes cultures set genetical prints... I mean, you can only marry your family so many times under cultural acceptable conditions, before the culture start to get somewhat dumb...

Where do they inbreed again?

Oooooooooooooooh, in arabic and african countries...


EDIT: Norway accepts around 1/10 of the immigrants we do, and they have oil money. OF COURSE he didn't see a problem with blacks or arabs..

EDIT 2: I do think it's rather ungraceful of you to bring up dead peoples arguments... I feel ill at ease criticising a person that is dead, and can't defend himself. Oh and also that he is dead.

And honestly, it's not like you do him a favour... He and you come from completely different perspectives, so please don't try to imitate.

[Papewaio]

KAV how do you explain Colin Powell?

=][=

As for the East Asian examples a) They are immigrants, b) they tend to be from the brightest and hardest working to emigrate.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see a normalization of results over generations.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

KAV how do you explain Colin Powell?

=][=

As for the East Asian examples a) They are immigrants, b) they tend to be from the brightest and hardest working to emigrate.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see a normalization of results over generations.

How do you explain Obama?

How to you explain the original Caliphate if Arabs are genetically predisposed to he faeces covered camel humpers?

This is a really complex topic and I should be doing other things so I'm going to sketch this in broad strokes.

Western societies were created by white people for white people - the way to get on in these societies is to be like white people. People coming from Africa are very different, culturally, from white people and so they do badly.

You can see this in other countries even among different white nationals within Europe.

The English generally do poorly in France, for example, and worse in Germany, Scandinavians tend to do poorly in places like Italy because they come from very open and ordered societies where Italy is anything but, I believe that Mediterraneans tend to do poorly in Scandinavia for similar reasons.

[Fragony]

If I remember correctly, you said it was in the past and you regretted it anyway. Wasn't trying to make a shot against you, just saying that the practice was real.

I don't think I said I regretted it, just that I didn't like doing it as I was just avoiding trouble. You just don't want a big R stamped on your head it is impossible to defend yourself, me and my customers. I don't see it as my fault that insinuations when things don't go as you want them to go will start working against you.

Practise is real by the way, Dutch companies prefer Dutch workers.

[Husar]

Actually I am deriding your position... As it is, to say the least, full of fluff... And to be honest, idiotic and masochistic. You Germans really hate yourselves for being white these post WWII days, don't you?

Again, I pointed out that you contradicted yourself.
If someone gives you a report with numbers you say we cannot just look at numbers. If someone gives you explanations, you say they need to provide numbers. How about you look for my explanations and take Sarmatian's and HoreTore's numbers and go with that?

If your repeated it several times, I am sure you can do it again to show the board what a fool I am... No?

No, because regardless of what I write, you will probably call it fluff or tell me in a condescending way that I could do better without giving me a proper argument in reply - happened often enough before. And I don't have an hour to waste every day writing things I have already written. I'm sure to condescendingly deride my posts takes you less time than that, so how about you invest ome time for once because I'm not your village idiot who does everything you want.

[Gilrandir]

Seeing this argument unfold I keep repeating to myself Sarmatian's remark on high quality discussions on these boards.

[Greyblades]

I find it hard to keep caring when accusations of racism start being thrown about.