Another terrible race motivated attack.

Originally Posted by Greyblades

I find it hard to keep caring when accusations of racism start being thrown about.

Stop being dense. You are just as hyperbolic as anyone else.

Yeah, no, if I was being as hyperbolic as you I'd be calling you a race traitor.

Originally Posted by Greyblades

I find it hard to keep caring when accusations of racism start being thrown about.

Are you saying there is no racism anymore?
HoreTore showed long ago that Kadagar's sources on the IQ differences that he keeps bringing up are from racists and that they do not correspond with findings of more trustworthy researchers. Yet the argument of "asians are the most clever, africans are the most stupid, it's science" keeps coming up and I'm supposed to not call it racist or bring up the exact same arguments again every time? Wasn't it Einstein who said stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

Originally Posted by Husar

Are you saying there is no racism anymore?
HoreTore showed long ago that Kadagar's sources on the IQ differences that he keeps bringing up are from racists and that they do not correspond with findings of more trustworthy researchers. Yet the argument of "asians are the most clever, africans are the most stupid, it's science" keeps coming up and I'm supposed to not call it racist or bring up the exact same arguments again every time? Wasn't it Einstein who said stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

No it was the bad guy in farcry 3, and he was talking out his ass
Strangely enough I wasn't refferng to your little spat nor have I been paying it attention.

Racist is the new Godwin misused to the point of meaningless buzzword.

Originally Posted by Greyblades

No it was the bad guy in farcry 3, and he was talking out his ass
Strangely enough I wasn't refferng to your little spat nor have I been paying it attention.

Racist is the new Godwin misused to the point of meaningless buzzword.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

its actually a misquote - no-one is sure who actually said that - the first written example is a Hazelden Foundation pamphlet...

The quote has also been attributed to Mark Twain and Benjamin Frankilin...

It was also used several times by Vaas so Greyblades is actually closer to the truth

Originally Posted by Sir Moody

its actually a misquote - no-one is sure who actually said that - the first written example is a Hazelden Foundation pamphlet...

The quote has also been attributed to Mark Twain and Benjamin Frankilin...

It was also used several times by Vaas so Greyblades is actually closer to the truth

He generally is.

Out of time now, will come back later :)

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Racist is the new Godwin misused to the point of meaningless buzzword.

Couldn't you technically say that human is a race in itself and what is often described as races are phenotypes of that one race?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(...lassification)

Even though there is a broad scientific agreement that essentialist and typological conceptualizations of race are untenable, scientists around the world continue to conceptualize race in widely differing ways, some of which have essentialist implications.[14] While some researchers sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race often is used in a naive[9] or simplistic way,[15] and argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance by pointing out that all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens, and subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[16][17]

Therefore racism would be a meaningless buzzword, but at the same time all the "racial research" ever done on "differences between human races" would be meaningless as no such thing as different human races would exist.
Making every argument about racial differences completely pointless as the differences between different phenotypes of humans are nowhere near big enough to warrant a classification as a different race, which was apparently just a pipe dream someone came up with at some point.

What a surprise, or was that not what you were aiming at?

Originally Posted by Husar

Couldn't you technically say that human is a race in itself and what is often described as races are phenotypes of that one race?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(...lassification)



Therefore racism would be a meaningless buzzword, but at the same time all the "racial research" ever done on "differences between human races" would be meaningless as no such thing as different human races would exist.
Making every argument about racial differences completely pointless as the differences between different phenotypes of humans are nowhere near big enough to warrant a classification as a different race, which was apparently just a pipe dream someone came up with at some point.

What a surprise, or was that not what you were aiming at?

Just like we have dogs, you mean?

By your point of view, a Rottweiler and a Chihuahua is the same, right?

Only difference would be that dogs have evolved in a SHORTER time period than humans... EDIT: Although of course more purposefully bred.


So yes, I can agree that we are all humans, regardless of culture, race, or whatever... Just like I can agree that dogs are all dogs.

With that said however, it is absolutely LUNATIC to believe that living entities, against all science, would evolve identically under different circumstances.

I mean, that is like a fundament of modern science, DUDE!!

Originally Posted by Sir Moody

its actually a misquote - no-one is sure who actually said that - the first written example is a Hazelden Foundation pamphlet...

The quote has also been attributed to Mark Twain and Benjamin Frankilin...

It was also used several times by Vaas so Greyblades is actually closer to the truth

I stand corrected. It seems it isn't even a misquote more of an assignment to authority. Much like how all inventions in ancient China are attributed to the Emperor, modern humans are just as guilty of over simplifying and assuming that there are singular geniuses creating all our output.

I think I'm going to re-read Guns, Germs and Steel. It reframed the singular genius idea and why certain groups have been successful... Spoiler alert it's having the longest east west axis, creating environments that food packages can be distributed on and predictable seasons.

Originally Posted by Papewaio

I stand corrected. It seems it isn't even a misquote more of an assignment to authority. Much like how all inventions in ancient China are attributed to the Emperor, modern humans are just as guilty of over simplifying and assuming that there are singular geniuses creating all our output.

I think I'm going to re-read Guns, Germs and Steel. It reframed the singular genius idea and why certain groups have been successful... Spoiler alert it's having the longest east west axis, creating environments that food packages can be distributed on and predictable seasons.

Yeah but that is about pre-historic cultures... Aight?

Otherwise it would be rather shaming...

I mean, look at North Africa... Compare that to Scandinavia...

In one place we have orderly citizens building welfare states...

In one place we have absolute chaos.

Want to develop your theory of east-west axis for all of our benefit?

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Yeah but that is about pre-historic cultures... Aight?

Otherwise it would be rather shaming...

I mean, look at North Africa... Compare that to Scandinavia...

In one place we have orderly citizens building welfare states...

In one place we have absolute chaos.

Want to develop your theory of east-west axis for all of our benefit?

A) not my theory
B) guns and steel aren't prehistoric inventions
C) Scandinavia is part of Europe. Europe is part of Eurasia. The longest East - West Axis on the planet (plus other beneficial factors). Civilization first grew around the Fertile Crescent (until it was no longer as fertile) and in China. Plants and animals can be transplanted in similar environments hence Wheat spreading from the Middle East to Europe. Etc etc

If you read the book it will reinforce some of your ideas and flip others into a new perspective.

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Just like we have dogs, you mean?

By your point of view, a Rottweiler and a Chihuahua is the same, right?

Only difference would be that dogs have evolved in a SHORTER time period than humans... EDIT: Although of course more purposefully bred.


So yes, I can agree that we are all humans, regardless of culture, race, or whatever... Just like I can agree that dogs are all dogs.

With that said however, it is absolutely LUNATIC to believe that living entities, against all science, would evolve identically under different circumstances.

I mean, that is like a fundament of modern science, DUDE!!

You are aware that I was going with what the wikipedia article said? And that article had more sources than you do. Why would I believe you over that article?

Originally Posted by Husar

Are you saying there is no racism anymore?
HoreTore showed long ago that Kadagar's sources on the IQ differences that he keeps bringing up are from racists and that they do not correspond with findings of more trustworthy researchers. Yet the argument of "asians are the most clever, africans are the most stupid, it's science" keeps coming up and I'm supposed to not call it racist or bring up the exact same arguments again every time? Wasn't it Einstein who said stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

IQ world-map is all you need, Kads is right

This thread was about the treatment of blacks in the US. Why am I not surprised that this simply devolved into another thread for kad to talk about how genetically inferior they are.

Pointless southern prejudice aside, your opening post failed to give us a topic of discussion that hasn't been done to death.

Perhaps we wouldn't have gone down the familiar paths of conversation if you had started with something a bit more nuanced that "grr southerners, screw em"

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Pointless southern prejudice aside, your opening post failed to give us a topic of discussion that hasn't been done to death.

Perhaps we wouldn't have gone down the familiar paths of conversation if you had started with something a bit more nuanced that "grr southerners, screw em"

I'm getting tired of the constant chip on your shoulder dude. I opened a topic on the removal of the Confederate flag and the extent to which racist symbols and practices should be removed, particularly in the south. This clearly wasn't as tired as you claim since more respectable people in here like strike and Panzer responded in kind with opinions regarding the degree to which we blame southern culture when it comes to institutional practices and public backlash in the aftermath of tragedies. Others like PVC and monty also brought up points about the morality and efficacy of attempts to alter culture as an outsider.

It is not my fault that you cant separate issues as broad as 'race' into multiple questions to tackle individually. Just like you can't seem to shut the **** up about gamergate every time video games are discussed in a serious manner. The only thread where people stay on topic (Ukraine) is by far the most active and largest thread. So yeah, excuse me for being a tad annoyed at seeing another thread once again end in 40 posts between kad and husar or you and husar.

No disrespect to Husar BTW, keep fighting the good fight.

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

No disrespect to Husar BTW, keep fighting the good fight.

Sisyphus much?



I would be more interested in an actual discussion...

Whenever I have time I'll come back with a more serious reply :)

Originally Posted by Papewaio

A) not my theory
B) guns and steel aren't prehistoric inventions
C) Scandinavia is part of Europe. Europe is part of Eurasia. The longest East - West Axis on the planet (plus other beneficial factors). Civilization first grew around the Fertile Crescent (until it was no longer as fertile) and in China. Plants and animals can be transplanted in similar environments hence Wheat spreading from the Middle East to Europe. Etc etc

If you read the book it will reinforce some of your ideas and flip others into a new perspective.

Yeah... Quick question: Weren't whites chasing mammuts as the blacks more or less had bananas dropping on their heads, in comparison?

If you read, like, ANYTHING about genetics and stuff, heck Darwinism 101 would suffice.. You will come to accept that living beings under different conditions will evolve differently from each other.

Heck, we don't even have to get into genetics. We can even talk about cultures - completely separate from genetics (an arguable case with inbreeding and stuff, but let's move on).

TBH your west/east theory is, well, ****.

Why? Because there are absolutely no correspondence to that theory in the modern societies we have built. I mean, by your logic, Aborigines should have developed society more than, say, the people on Iceland...

Yet Aborigines are still NOT exactly known for building functional societies... Are they?

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Yet Aborigines are still NOT exactly known for building functional societies... Are they?

Define "functional society".
Or just explain what about their societies did not work prior to being forced into a capitalist system?

Originally Posted by Husar

Define "functional society".
Or just explain what about their societies did not work prior to being forced into a capitalist system?

You don't have to think about reasons to be first acknowedging a fact. How and why can come later.

Originally Posted by Fragony

You don't have to think about reasons to be first acknowedging a fact. How and why can come later.

it isn't a fact though - prior to European interference they had thriving cultures and complex societies - don't fall into the assumption a lack of technology meant a lack of society.

Originally Posted by Sir Moody

it isn't a fact though - prior to European interference they had thriving cultures and complex societies - don't fall into the assumption a lack of technology meant a lack of society.

That is why you can disregard that as being just factors that lead to the outcome of the sum. No matter the variables the fact remains that east-asians do a lot better than whites, and whites do better than middle-easterns and africans. There can be so many reasons for that but why just dismiss it that things just are like that at the moment. Not acknowledging that is just off imho

Originally Posted by Fragony

That is why you can disregard that as being just factors that lead to the outcome of the sum. No matter the variables the fact remains that east-asians do a lot better than whites, and whites do better than middle-easterns and africans. There can be so many reasons for that but why just dismiss it that things just are like that at the moment. Not acknowledging that is just off imho

... can someone translate this please it makes no sense in regard to what I said ...

Originally Posted by Sir Moody

... can someone translate this please it makes no sense in regard to what I said ...

I think Fragony just defined "functional society" as "getting 2 points more on average in IQ tests" or something similar to that, depending on how he defines "do better".

It's not just BS, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Husar

I think Fragony just defined "functional society" as "getting 2 points more on average in IQ tests" or something similar to that, depending on how he defines "do better".

It's not just BS, it makes no sense whatsoever.

If it makes no sense just look at the results and try to make sense out of the results. Compare South-Korea or Japan to Somalia or Zimbabwe. Feel free to factor in anything, be my guest I am patiently waiting.

Originally Posted by Fragony

If it makes no sense just look at the results and try to make sense out of the results. Compare South-Korea or Japan to Somalia or Zimbabwe. Feel free to factor in anything, be my guest I am patiently waiting.

Well, the Samurai kept killing eachother and were living in a perpetual warzone whereas the africans were living happy peaceful lives in the vast land where they hardly encountered other tribes and probably had some wars as well when they did. Both were fully functional societies however.

I cannot compare zimbabwe or somalia to japan as I do not think the states of somalia or zimbabwe already existed before the europeans came and colonized africa.

Originally Posted by Husar

Well, the Samurai kept killing eachother and were living in a perpetual warzone whereas the africans were living happy peaceful lives in the vast land where they hardly encountered other tribes and probably had some wars as well when they did. Both were fully functional societies however.

I cannot compare zimbabwe or somalia to japan as I do not think the states of somalia or zimbabwe already existed before the europeans came and colonized africa.

Saying what, I know there are established civilizations there my appartment is filled with African art and ceremonial weapons, the Louvre would be jealous of a few. Doesn't mean that they aren't hopelesly lagging behind when it comes to just about everything.