10 years

[Sarmatian]

Leaving of Louis and Banquo were completely separate incidents and as far as i can recall Banquo´s leaving had no drama connected to it.

Not according to Louis and Banquo. Banquo just stepped down quietly.

Ever since Tosa passed away trough the point i gave away my Mod ropes, to the point i asked my Keep access to be terminated. I had hard time agreeing with most of Administrations line of thinking, while certainly my own attitude was far from being very constructive. In any case i dont agree that there was some sort of systematical "cleansing" going on in the staff, like some seem to think. Rather just bunch of worn out and worried people trying to achieve what they thought was best for the site.

It wasn't a systematic cleansing, it was a part of staff coming down on those they disagreed with.

And Adrian leaving because of that. No one thinks there's something odd about Adrian starting a thread thanking Banquo after he stepped down, expressing pleasure that Banquo will stay as a member and then immediately leaving without a single word? Between starting that thread and leaving, Adrian received a pm from BG explaining to him that it wasn't voluntary but that he and Louis were basically forced out. Yes, in the end they stepped down "voluntarily" but only because they didn't want to take the abuse any more. Some of it happened in the moderators forum, but both of them also received quite a few abusive pm's.

In the end, those "worn out" people basically destroyed the backroom/tavern/off topic part of the forum, and most of them had little to no contact with it. Members of the staff who did, instead of telling them to f*** off, joined them or stood idly by.

[Kagemusha]

Not according to Louis and Banquo. Banquo just stepped down quietly.


It wasn't a systematic cleansing, it was a part of staff coming down on those they disagreed with.

And Adrian leaving because of that. No one thinks there's something odd about Adrian starting a thread thanking Banquo after he stepped down, expressing pleasure that Banquo will stay as a member and then immediately leaving without a single word? Between starting that thread and leaving, Adrian received a pm from BG explaining to him that it wasn't voluntary but that he and Louis were basically forced out. Yes, in the end they stepped down "voluntarily" but only because they didn't want to take the abuse any more. Some of it happened in the moderators forum, but both of them also received quite a few abusive pm's.

In the end, those "worn out" people basically destroyed the backroom/tavern/off topic part of the forum, and most of them had little to no contact with it. Members of the stuff who did, instead of telling them to f*** off, joined them or stood idly by.

And you have any first hand information concerning any of this?

[Fragony]

And you have any first hand information concerning any of this?

Let it rest imho, they aren't comming back as it seems, no need for a maelström for those involved. I for one never expected such a thing happening here, I thought the staff were all friendly with eachother. Must say I am a bit shocked.

[Kagemusha]

Let it rest imho, they aren't comming back as it seems, no need for a maelström for those involved. I for one never expected such a thing happening here, I thought the staff were all friendly with eachother. Must say I am a bit shocked.

You are right. I leave it to that.

[Sarmatian]

And you have any first hand information concerning any of this?

For some, yes. For others, secondhand.

Most importantly, all the pieces fit perfectly together.

Let it rest imho

Nah. I like exposing hypocrites and cowards.
More importantly, I think it is one of the main reasons why my favourite political discussion board declined in quality so much.

[Fragony]

Nah. I like exposing hypocrites and cowards.
More importantly, I think it is one of the main reasons why my favourite political discussion board declined in quality so much.

As I was an involuntary subject that got drawn into this I kindly request that we should just leave it at this. I got hauled in so I deserve a say at least.

[Andres]

@Sarmatian @Strike For The South

1) Banquo: yes, I feel personnally responsible for his departure. I had my opinion and stood up for it. Along the line, I disregarded the person Banquo and his feelings. I was very harsh and my words were the drop that spilled the bucket for him. He stepped down. I pm'ed him, I apologised to him, he was very gentlemany, as he always was, and he sticked to his decision. But with no hard feelings. He actually stayed around for a very short time after it and then left.

Allthough he assured me that there were no hard feelings and that our friendship was still intact, all those years later, I still feel terrible about it. And rightly so

2) Louis. He only has himself to blame. Not only because of his behaviour in public, but also because of incidents that occurred in private. Incidents that I witnessed. I wasn't involved in those incidents, they happened between him and other staff members. It was impossible to keep him staff. I stood and am still standing 100 % after the decision made at the time. And allthough it was Ser's decision, I'm not going to be a coward and hide behind his back. He has my full support and if you want to verbally abuse Ser for it, then I'm standing next to him. My predecessor made the right decision. And nothing you say will change that.

If you think atmosphere among staff is/was so rotten that we/they amused/amuse ourselves/themselves with intrigues and forum politics including backstabbing and getting colleagues expelled and other petty games, well, I guess you believe what you want to believe.



Nothing I can change about that.

Food for thought: since Tosa's passing, only 1 staff member ever got himself expelled. 1.

As I said in the Watchtower, Louis is more than welcome to return as a member.

If he decides to start a drama thread in the Watchtower about this, then I'll most probably completely ignore it. Or spank his behind.

If you want to see me rot in a cage, then let me rot in a cage over Banquo, not Louis.

[Sarmatian]

See, this is complete BS again because you insinuate that:
1) I wanted him removed even before or during the first part of the affair, that is NOT true.
2) his public comments were somehow the official or inofficial reason given for his removal when in fact Ser Clegane never gave one single reason IIRC.
3) that he was somehow blameless or made only a minor mistake when in fact he backstabbed me several times, tried to discredit me with the other moderators because I voiced my opinion and treated me like a silly child while I repeatedly told him that this made me angry before I asked for him to be removed.

And those statements contradict one another. You say that there was absolutely no other reason you wanted Louis removed but the fag word, and then you mention how he bullied you and ignored your warnings before you asked him to be removed.

Or are ou saying that because he was funnier than me he had the right to bully me and I should have shut up and taken it?

If he indeed bullied you, you should have stood up to him, not go tell on him to the teacher.

Tell me why I should be fried at all.

Because if you and some others had little more spunk, we could have still had BG, Adrian and Louis.

@Sarmatian @Strike For The South

1) Banquo: yes, I feel personnally responsible for his departure. I had my opinion and stood up for it. Along the line, I disregarded the person Banquo and his feelings. I was very harsh and my words were the drop that spilled the bucket for him. He stepped down. I pm'ed him, I apologised to him, he was very gentlemany, as he always was, and he sticked to his decision. But with no hard feelings. He actually stayed around for a very short time after it and then left.

Allthough he assured me that there were no hard feelings and that our friendship was still intact, all those years later, I still feel terrible about it. And rightly so

2) Louis. He only has himself to blame. Not only because of his behaviour in public, but also because of incidents that occurred in private. Incidents that I witnessed. I wasn't involved in those incidents, they happened between him and other staff members. It was impossible to keep him staff. I stood and am still standing 100 % after the decision made at the time. And allthough it was Ser's decision, I'm not going to be a coward and hide behind his back. He has my full support and if you want to verbally abuse Ser for it, then I'm standing next to him. My predecessor made the right decision. And nothing you say will change that.

If you think atmosphere among staff is/was so rotten that we/they amused/amuse ourselves/themselves with intrigues and forum politics including backstabbing and getting colleagues expelled and other petty games, well, I guess you believe what you want to believe.

But you fail to see how those two cases are connected, and you're rationalizing now how you were wrong in one instance but right in the other. 50%/50% is better than 100% wrong. Actually, there was just one case and you were wrong. Also, you weren't an innocent bystander, but were actively involved. So, no, I don't buy your explanation.

Nothing I can change about that.

You've done enough already. Save yourself the burden.

Food for thought: since Tosa's passing, only 1 staff member ever got himself expelled. 1.

Because the examples like Banquo, those were bullied into resignation don't count, right? Anyway, I don't care about any others. I care about the backroom that I love. Yes, I'm totally self serving with this, and I'm annoyed that we lost three of our best contributors because people were childish and petty.

As I said in the Watchtower, Louis is more than welcome to return as a member.

He's not coming back, but why are you thinking you have the right to decide his status if he did?

If he decides to start a drama thread in the Watchtower about this, then I'll most probably completely ignore it. Or spank his behind.

If you want to see me rot in a cage, then let me rot in a cage over Banquo, not Louis.

Funnily enough, at this point I'd just like for some people to come clean, like Prole did. Or, in your case, to admit that it didn't have anything to do with the word fag, that you disliked him (and BG), and wanted him (them) gone.

I'm blaming you (plural) for Adrian, too, but in that case you didn't do anything directly. You just f***** things up enough so that he left on his own.