I'm hosting a game!

[Double A]

vote: jht

Also can I be a sub?

[Visor]

HARDCLAIM: I am a survivor. This will be the easiest victory I've ever had unless mafia/killing role decide for some reason I'm lying.

I am not a power role, I am aligned with no-one win with mafia or town.

Continue playing.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Visor

[Visor]

Vote: Visor

[GeneralHankerchief]

Joking response: You can't dangle that kind of a fruit in my face and not expect me to take it.

Serious response: I've been out of the game for a while but that role makes no sense to me. Either you're a third party/neutral or a regular villain looking to take a risk. I doubt power-town would have made that kind of claim.

[Visor]

Joking response: You can't dangle that kind of a fruit in my face and not expect me to take it.

Serious response: I've been out of the game for a while but that role makes no sense to me. Either you're a third party/neutral or a regular villain looking to take a risk. I doubt power-town would have made that kind of claim.

Its just a survivor role. I have to live to endgame.

I have balls but not that much to claim it first post as scum/serial killer. I take risks, but calculated ones.

I'm also not power town. I'm simply a survivor. Basically a vanilla townie I guess.

[Visor]

I don't think I've ever claimed first post before so thats a new thing.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I don't think I've ever claimed first post before so thats a new thing.

Ooh, thanks for the excuse to link to one of my favorite philosophical concepts that relates to Mafia!

Problem of induction

Scumcatch and Hume on D1, it's like I never stopped playing.

[Winston Hughes]

Serious response: I've been out of the game for a while but that role makes no sense to me.

It should be noted that this is an El Barto game, so assumptions about whether a claim makes sense carry rather less weight than they might under a different host (not that this is a criticism - it's part of Takhisis' charm).

How are you feeling about the other responses to Visor's claim, btw?

[Montmorency]

HARDCLAIM: I am a survivor. This will be the easiest victory I've ever had unless mafia/killing role decide for some reason I'm lying.

Seems sort of anti fun to claim - but I'm probably an early nightkill so I figure I'd be upfront and claim.

Maybe we're all just rusty, but this wording screams to me that Visor needs to be lynched.

[Visor]

Seems sort of anti fun to claim - but I'm probably an early nightkill so I figure I'd be upfront and claim.

[El Barto]

vote: jht

Also can I be a sub?

Of course! From which deli?

[BSmith]

Dammit Visor. You are making me actually think on D1. Why can’t this just be a lazy random vote day?!

I am inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, though I agree completely with Winston that you would be more than capable of pulling off the WIFOM ploy precisely because it would not be the boring approach.

[Visor]

<50%

How likely do you think it is that I'm scum?

:(

Its hard for me to come to a conclusion on that yet. I sorta need everyone else to weigh in so I can judge the responses. I guess I sorta lean town for now based on you keeping your position.

Dammit Visor. You are making me actually think on D1. Why can’t this just be a lazy random vote day?!

I am inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, though I agree completely with Winston that you would be more than capable of pulling off the WIFOM ploy precisely because it would not be the boring approach.

My meta is working against me!

Wait, that's also true. If he *is* mafia, and there's a backup plan, this wouldn't actually be a half-bad ploy. Rile up discussion on himself and get his partner to sail through scot-free. What do we call that? It was some chess term... yeah, that's the word! I did one of those once, if I recall. Anyways, I still kinda feel like this is generally too stupid to be a legitimate mafia ploy.

Wait, but if he's mafia and we accepted that logic, he skates free to the last lynch almost certainly. Hey, this aint a bad ploy at all... hrm.... Yeah, it is a tough one. Still, I think for now I'll keep my vote where it is for the time being, how 'bout you?

I'll entertain this hypothesis: If I was mafia this is a terrible self sacrifice because I don't gain any equity for my partner in this scenario. I'm all for self sacrificial plays and have done them in the past but they're all designed to pull out a win quickly generally.

And if I'm mafia and you take me at my word I will indeed probably skate by to end of game.

Its a risk I guess. That is why I am asking you to read me based off my posts at this stage rather than my claim because that should give you a better indication of my alignment.

[Visor]

A question before I go Winston, If you do think I am lying, do you think I am lying from a town perspective or a mafia perspective?

[Winston Hughes]

A question before I go Winston, If you do think I am lying, do you think I am lying from a town perspective or a mafia perspective?

The fact I'm voting for you would seem to answer that.

In any case, the '~stupidest play' defence isn't working for me.

[BSmith]

Yes, yes... you and GH are correct, wishy-washy is a good words for that. "Struggling to not random". It's day 1, random it like a boss.

And hush, you, switching a vote is not wishy-washy.

Unvote: Ishmael
Vote: Bsmith

Random on D1 is usually the way to go because there is an absence of other information to make an informed decision. That is not the case here, as we have plenty of other information given Visor’s claim and the reactions to it.

The way you gloss over this fact along with your quick, easy copy-cat vote for me strikes me as an attempt to seem like you are contributing, but in reality are just trying to make it look like you are.

vote: seireikhaan

[BSmith]

Given the general negative knee-jerk reaction to claims like this (“ZOMG He is not town! LYNCH HIM!!!!”) regardless of what the actual claim is, a ploy like this would have extremely long odds. So extreme that it would be highly unlikely for an actual scummer to make that bet.

What the claim has done though is take all the air out of any other case that might be made. Given that D1 is usually random votes it might be too much to expect a decent discussion on alternatives, but I certainly hope we can start.

Of course as I write this I am struggling to not just go random myself…

[Winston Hughes]

What the claim has done though is take all the air out of any other case that might be made.

You think? I'd wager it provoked much more discussion than we'd have seen otherwise. Indeed, I've been wondering if Visor might move to a second-phase defence of "I'm just vanilla town trying to get people talking". His last question to me suggests that might be the case.

Of course as I write this I am struggling to not just go random myself…

There's no excuse for random voting now. We can vote people for what they've said (or for what they haven't said) with regards to the Visor wagon.

[BSmith]

You think? I'd wager it provoked much more discussion than we'd have seen otherwise. Indeed, I've been wondering if Visor might move to a second-phase defence of "I'm just vanilla town trying to get people talking". His last question to me suggests that might be the case.

Absolutely. There is much more discussion than there otherwise would have been, which on balance is a positive thing. If Visor does backtrack into that defense, then I would be much more willing to vote for him.

There's no excuse for random voting now. We can vote people for what they've said (or for what they haven't said) with regards to the Visor wagon.

Indeed, which is why I haven’t voted for anyone yet. I am tempted to vote for someone that took the knee-jerk “let’s vote Visor because ‘reasons’” path, but I have yet to have any one poster stick out as manipulating that very obvious response. No one has completely ignored Visor either, which would be another thing to pick on.