IMMIGRATION thread

[Rhyfelwyr]

Brenus, your picture of one child isn't exactly an argument against my point that most of these "refugees" are young men.

Same goes for the picture of Kobane and the story of a single family.

[Fragony]

Perfect place for refugees, Mekka. http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/ima...-25180244.html

Yes that are all empty tents.

First pic, closer look http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven....html#comments

I mean wtf

[Husar]

Brenus, your picture of one child isn't exactly an argument against my point that most of these "refugees" are young men.

And why would your point be any more valid than the picture? Have you shown any reliable proof for your point?
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but if you want to raise your point above that of someone else, back it up accordingly.

A link like this for example: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...)_YB15_III.png

The problem with this though, is that it throws them all together and does not just focus on the ones fleeing from middle eastern wars. I would think there are a lot of males from poor African countries, but their economic incentives should not distract from the actual problems of war in the middle east.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

72% of the refugees are males. Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries.

The 2nd greatest nation in continental Europe is about to be overrun by spineless man children whom want nothing more than to consume.

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

In fairness, the married ones plan on gaining Asylum and then importing their families later - which has worked in the past in the EU.

[Brenus]

"This is, fundamentally, what the Germanic peoples did during the Great Migration - faced with the Huns and falling crop yields due to poor weather they crossed the Roman frontier in their thousands in order to put the Limes between them and their problems, but once they were within the Empire they were too many of the Romans to deal with and within a century they broke the back of the Empire." Hmmm, valid point. However, I do not remember studying how the Romans went to rescue the Germans from their Huns tyrants without really asking them, telling them they will become Roman Citizens, then blaming the Germans to come in Rome. I could as well underline that the Roman did not destroy the Germanic Armies which could have defeated the Huns, morally in humiliating the Germans (why to defend a Germany when there is none) and building a weak Germanic Army with not country to defend and only auxiliaries who just have to obey the Romans who never really rebuilt the aqueducts and the roads, markets and farms they destroyed in the process of Romanisation.

Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries. Ah, yes, of course, the coward argument. Humm, as mentionned by Calicvla, Kobane was defended by the Kurds and retaken by the Kurds. And, ooops, the Kurds are bombed by the Turks without a whimper of warning from the Romans, err, NATO, US and EU. So, if I am a Pershmerga, I will start to wonder why to stay where killing my family and relatives season is open.
Who is to blame for the lack of fighting spirit of the Iraqis Army? The ones who trained them. We destroy their country then we blame them they don't fight for it.
Because of course, all these people are risking their live to have more ketchup on their burgers. And that why they try "crossing the Med in a rickety boat.". Your really think that a father will risk the life of his children and his wife just to get a better life, in the economic sense? He wanted a life. Why to deny him the same family values we have and give him his due?
Before our well prepared and beautifully planned invasion of Iraq, he wouldn't have to do so.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hmmm, valid point. However, I do not remember studying how the Romans went to rescue the Germans from their Huns tyrants without really asking them, telling them they will become Roman Citizens, then blaming the Germans to come in Rome. I could as well underline that the Roman did not destroy the Germanic Armies which could have defeated the Huns, morally in humiliating the Germans (why to defend a Germany when there is none) and building a weak Germanic Army with not country to defend and only auxiliaries who just have to obey the Romans who never really rebuilt the aqueducts and the roads, markets and farms they destroyed in the process of Romanisation.

The point is not that that these people are unjustified in seeking a new life, the point is that we need to recognise that A: they are not all genuine refugees and B: if they keep coming they can break the countries they settle in. This isn't like the Post-War period when we invited people from our former colonies to come work in our fields or drive our buses - and that was a difficult enough adjustment for people at the time.

Many of these Syrians, particularly young men, will be former fighters, up to and including IS Jihadists. This is not a flock of frightened sheep, these are national migrations and we have already seen them break our borders. They broke out of Macedonia and Hungary, refused to register there, forced their way to Austria and now they will trek across Austria to Germany.

Like any large group of people their passage alone will cause disruption and damage to the areas they pass through, probably hundreds of thousands of Euro's worth - remember we haven't had a full harvest yet, and they will cross fields and ruin crops.

[rvg]

Accommodation of Syrian refugees reflects European values, but at the same time contradicts European interests.

[HopAlongBunny]

I blame Saint Ronald Reagan.
His defeat of Communism prevented the West from unlocking "The End of History" achievement.
Unfortunately, history continues and the mass migration of populations remains with us

[rvg]

I blame Saint Ronald Reagan.
His defeat of Communism prevented the West from unlocking "The End of History" achievement.
Unfortunately, history continues and the mass migration of populations remains with us

Europe has every necessary tool to block this migration. Every tool with the exception of the will to do it. If this backfires, Europe has only herself to blame.

[Husar]

72% of the refugees are males. Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries.

The 2nd greatest nation in continental Europe is about to be overrun by spineless man children whom want nothing more than to consume.

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Careful with the words there.
As I said, that is the total number of asylum applicants, not just refugees from the Middle East.
Even I know that there are young African men who want to come here to become football players an millionaires.
These guys (who I agree do not qualify for asylum) are in there as well and would have to be removed from the statistics to be able to make a valid point about Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi refugees.

But even then one could also google for a second instead of just criticizing things after a superficial read and making assumptions that may not apply. UNHCR for example gives reasons why men or boys in particular may be more likely to flee from a conflict zone: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a6872836.html

Adult men and boys are often neglected in discussions of forced displacement, and yet they have particular needs and are confronted with specific threats to their life and liberty. Males are often most directly affected by the armed conflicts which provoke refugee movements. They are at risk of forced recruitment into armies and militia groups

Of course we can demand that they should resist and get killed at the hands of those militia instead, but then why fake concern about them dying in the Mediterranean? Or maybe we could tell them to just join Al Queda or their local warlord's militia instead of fighting them or fleeing from them. That way they are safe until they have to try to kill us. Oh right, they can also go to a dictatorship or stay in countries where they barely get enough food not to starve. What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

[Kadagar_AV]

Careful with the words there.
As I said, that is the total number of asylum applicants, not just refugees from the Middle East.
Even I know that there are young African men who want to come here to become football players an millionaires.
These guys (who I agree do not qualify for asylum) are in there as well and would have to be removed from the statistics to be able to make a valid point about Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi refugees.

But even then one could also google for a second instead of just criticizing things after a superficial read and making assumptions that may not apply. UNHCR for example gives reasons why men or boys in particular may be more likely to flee from a conflict zone: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a6872836.html



Of course we can demand that they should resist and get killed at the hands of those militia instead, but then why fake concern about them dying in the Mediterranean? Or maybe we could tell them to just join Al Queda or their local warlord's militia instead of fighting them or fleeing from them. That way they are safe until they have to try to kill us. Oh right, they can also go to a dictatorship or stay in countries where they barely get enough food not to starve. What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

*raises his hand*

*jumps up and down in the school bench*

I KNOW THIS ONE: It's because of a patriarchate society, isn't it???



YEY, not only did I score!! I did it on the winning side!!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Denmark has effective closed its border with Germany: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34203366

Why?

Because they want to get to Sweden.

first the bullying of Italy, then the brutalising of Greece, now this. The EU is falling apart.

[rvg]

Denmark has effective closed its border with Germany: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34203366

Bravo Denmark. They actually grew a pair and asserted their right to control who gets into their country and who doesn't. Still, the best permanent way of stopping the avalanche is to put the end to the gravy train of social welfare. Enough with the handholding and the handouts. Among the newcomers the industrious ones with the drive to succeed will succeed. Others will sink into the pits and to hell with them. I have zero respect, zero compassion and put zero value on the lives of able bodied men who come to a given country just so that they can sit on their asses and collect unemployment benefits. It's not a religious or a cultural thing: those men are a disgrace to the male gender regardless of their origin.

[Husar]

*raises his hand*

*jumps up and down in the school bench*

I KNOW THIS ONE: It's because of a patriarchate society, isn't it???

I quoted the relevant part below the link.

But yeah, as rvg says, if we turn our societies into patriarchate societies which are more like theirs, they may stop coming.

[Kadagar_AV]

I quoted the relevant part below the link.

But yeah, as rvg says, if we turn our societies into patriarchate societies which are more like theirs, they may stop coming.

And then we WIN!!

EDIT: Sarcasm.

[Kadagar_AV]

I quoted the relevant part below the link.

But yeah, as rvg says, if we turn our societies into patriarchate societies which are more like theirs, they may stop coming.

Addendum:

As to your last part referenced, as you referenced.:

What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

A nationalist? A patriot? A clear thinking individual?

YOU as a German still seem to bear some weight of "white mans guilt". For quite understandable reasons, I might add. But really, get over it.

I've had family in the camps, I so totally have no Grudge towards contemporary Germany because of it. Why? Because That. Is. Not. Your. Fault.



Last I tracked, this is NOT the "end of history time" where we live forever happily ever after. This is where we jumpfart to the moon, but can not afford such travels anymore...

YEY for progression since the 1950's.

[Husar]

A nationalist? A patriot? A clear thinking individual?

I get the first two because they can be quite irrational, but you have to explain why it is clear thinking to stay in a rotten condition that you can hardly improve if you have alternatives? I wouldn't propose that to the CEO of a failing company if you actually want the job...

YOU as a German still seem to bear some weight of "white mans guilt". For quite understandable reasons, I might add. But really, get over it.

If this were a game about being wrong, you'd be really good at it. One time you complain that I make too many nazi references, and then I'm too afraid of being looked at as a nazi. People who are like that don't mention Hitler usually.

As for the moon thing, yeah, can't afford that so we plan Mars colonies and asteroid mining instead...