IMMIGRATION thread

[Viking]

Who in that country do you expect to show such foresight? The 95% who have neither running water nor an education?

For example. People uniting in great numbers could become an unstoppable force. Not just for purely political reasons, but also to co-operate over harvest, trade etc. You don't need education to come up with this, basic logic and imagination will suffice.

Sometimes, it might be physically hard because there are large distances involved, farms and other types of work that cannot be abandoned, and so on. Other times, it's easier - like for city populations where smaller distances are involved. Cf. Cairo in 2011.

It's even easier for people with power; like wealthy people, or people in the military. But such people often don't care as long as their positions aren't threatened, or they have much to gain from it.

In the end it comes down to you just saying that it is their fault for not developing the technologies to compete in time. But if you say that you might as well go full darwinism and advocate that we sink all the boats we can find.

You don't need modern technology to have a functioning country in the first place. If poor countries co-operated and invested in technology and education, they could become relatively self-sufficient. Many poor countries have mineral resources etc. that many rich countries can only dream of.

If you had read the article, you might have known that France gets to choose who is the state there and that the money was already in France by the time they became "independent".

That makes no sense. Revenues for the state are generated continuously, and people with the military behind them decides who are in charge, unless France would dear to go for a full-scale invasion, which could still be won, either directly on indirectly. But it sounds like an unlikely scenario, anyway.

And even if they could, it's like saying Greece could also just stop paying its debt and everything will be fine and the sun will shine.

Greece has very high living standards compared to the countries we are talking about here, and through things like these more dependent on good international relations. A country where a majority of the population cannot even afford a TV has much less of a reason to maintain good international relations. What are they going to lose out on? Even more loans? Access to Spanish beach resorts?

Oh yes, Venezuela, super successful: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-30710014
And Cuba never had any refugees flee to richer countries...

So you are saying that Cuba and Venezuela are no better places than the average poor African country?

So what you want to see is european-backed governments with european-supplied weapons slaughter a bunch of half-starved grandfathers and women because they try to overthrow the government? Or are you perhaps rooting for the rebels who killed their sons and daughters in front of their grandchildren whom they then recruited as child soldiers at age 5 to continue their mostly futile resistance to the government? Who of these is not trying hard enough in your opinion?

Huh? I was saying that governments in Africa weren't trying hard enough to neutralise negative foreign sources in case they still exists.

You know, if I hire a martial arts expert to pin you to the ground, then come and tell you that I want to enslave you and you say it's not fair, I can also reply: "Look, I don't blame you, but it's your life, and the mess you are in, it is only common sense that you have to beat this martial arts expert, not my problem. I just paid this guy to take care of MY needs."
You see, it's easy to say that when he has already pinned you to the ground and you are completely helpless.

A supposed analogy for what exactly?

It sounds like the ramblings of an armchair general who has no idea of the realities on the battlefield. Would you be ready to die (yes, permanently, no reload) tomorrow if your government decided to make a turn for the worse?

No, just a straw man on your side. Show me were I told people in poor countries to do anything at all. All I have actually done is to emphasise what is possible, and how.

If I had a lethal genetic disease, I could study medicine and put all my work hours and spare time into finding a cure before it's too late - or I could study little to nothing, live a generally leisurely and pleasant life and hope that someone else finds a cure. My choice.