IMMIGRATION thread

[Greyblades]

I wasnt actually expecting someone to deflect that hard. It is rather sad really.

[AE Bravo]

That's easy. I can concede that. Maybe we have the same image of the elephant.

What's your solution?

*crickets*

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's easy. I can concede that. Maybe we have the same image of the elephant.

What's your solution?

*crickets*

Reduce the number of police cars and increase the number of foot patrols.

Police Foot patrols reduce crime whereas cars merely catch criminals.

The most important thing in these areas is to ensure the law is enforced. If you can force the immigrant groups to accept that the law is present you can make them fear it and encourage them to appeal to it rather than mob justice.

And yes - everyone should fear the Law.

[AE Bravo]

Reduce the number of police cars and increase the number of foot patrols.

Police Foot patrols reduce crime whereas cars merely catch criminals.

The most important thing in these areas is to ensure the law is enforced. If you can force the immigrant groups to accept that the law is present you can make them fear it and encourage them to appeal to it rather than mob justice.

And yes - everyone should fear the Law.

That is literally a cop out. You’re shifting responsibility to neglected sectors of the community. Thugs live on fear and fear mongering, especially ones that are an existential threat to the country. I’ve said this before all this does is result in a tweeked out Muslim version of NWA that will follow the ol European strategy of harboring hatred until that pent up aggression blows up in your face. It’s easy to say “more foot patrols” but that is unlikely to prevent a social movement with grievance narratives based on fact. You can accuse Muslims all you want of viewing everyone else as “sub-human” but there is a great impact on these communities after they see the UK assisting in the disintegration of Iraq, Libya, Syria, and now in Yemen supporting the coalition forces. Whether it's your ancestral homeland or just seeing people sharing your beliefs dying, there are big reasons for the state of victimhood since they are marginalized communities.

This is exactly what orgs like IS want, whose transnational strategy is nothing but deliberately making life harder for Muslims abroad.

People should be protected by the law.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That is literally a cop out. You’re shifting responsibility to neglected sectors of the community.

No, I'm throwing responsibility back onto the Police. It's their job to enforce the law and, more importantly, kepp the peace.

Thugs live on fear and fear mongering, especially ones that are an existential threat to the country.

How do you stop thugs? You create en environment in which they cannot operate. Enforcing the law is the cornerstone of the modern state, it's what allows me to walk down an unlit alley at night.

I’ve said this before all this does is result in a tweeked out Muslim version of NWA that will follow the ol European strategy of harboring hatred until that pent up aggression blows up in your face. It’s easy to say “more foot patrols” but that is unlikely to prevent a social movement with grievance narratives based on fact. You can accuse Muslims all you want of viewing everyone else as “sub-human” but there is a great impact on these communities after they see the UK assisting in the disintegration of Iraq, Libya, Syria, and now in Yemen supporting the coalition forces. Whether it's your ancestral homeland or just seeing people sharing your beliefs dying, there are big reasons for the state of victimhood since they are marginalized communities.

The fact that we are bombing IS in Syria is no excuse for someone to refuse to obey the law in the UK. We do not marginalise Muslims in this country, they marginalise themselves by not learning English (despite money set aside to help them) and living in ghettoes.

People should be protected by the law.

And to be protected by the law you must obey it - which means you must fear it.

I fear the law - I fear prison - it's why I go out of my way not to break it rather than just doing what I think is right.

[Beskar]

I fear the law - I fear prison - it's why I go out of my way not to break it rather than just doing what I think is right.

Don't sell yourself short, PFH, I am sure that isn't the only reason stopping you in not breaking the law.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Don't sell yourself short, PFH, I am sure that isn't the only reason stopping you in not breaking the law.

Of course not, but it's the thing that will always stop me. That's the point - the Law is something you follow all the time, and it applies to everyone. About 90% of the time (at least) I would automatically follow the Law but in certain circumstances I might act differently but for the Law.

For example - If someone abused a child or raped a friend of mine I'm fairly sure I could kill them and live with it - and if it was my own child I almost certainly would. However, the Law says that if I follow through with that I go to gaol, separated from my family.

The Law is about enforcing the same standards of behaviours on everyone. If there are parts of a country where the writ of the Law runs thin then that must be corrected first.

[Fragony]

That's easy. I can concede that. Maybe we have the same image of the elephant.

What's your solution?

*crickets*

I kinda get annoyed when people ask what the solution is, there isn't one. Political correctness has always been the problem.

[Husar]

I wasnt actually expecting someone to deflect that hard. It is rather sad really.

I was expecting a more detailed answer so I could explain what part you misread, but it seems that we will just have to agree that you misread.

Also define "deflect" in this context, as I'm not entirely sure what it refers to.

People complain more when it gets done by Muslims because Islamist terrorism is an unmatched global problem right now. Or at least so the media reports lead everyone to believe.
Is it always justified? Probably not. But when was the last time an incident took place outside of Israel that could even remotely be termed as 'Jewish terrorism'? Or for that matter an incident outside of India that could be called 'Hindu terrorism' or 'Sikh terrorism'?
I guess it's just that such Muslim ghettos have a higher chance of producing violent extremists than ghettos of any other community. As to why that is, is another issue.

Unmatched how? Does it kill more people per day than cancer?
As for the comparison to other communities, did you adjust for socioneconomic factors?
It is true that at the moment the muslims seem to spawn lots of terrorism, but as Fragony says, nothing we can do.

[Greyblades]

Also define "deflect" in this context, as I'm not entirely sure what it refers to.

Ignoring the article's contents to bash the author, going into a thread about one topic and whining that it isnt talking about another. Admitting you didnt even read the evidence being proffered yet expecting to be taken seriously when you dismiss them. These are frequent devices used to do what we call: derailing the conversation.

I was verbally bollocked for doing it several times over the last half decade in this very forum, I am very dissapointed that you would be stooping to them just because you dislike the subject.

You might as well keep your mouth shut, it would add the same amount to the conversation.

[rajpoot]

Unmatched how? Does it kill more people per day than cancer?
As for the comparison to other communities, did you adjust for socioneconomic factors?
It is true that at the moment the muslims seem to spawn lots of terrorism, but as Fragony says, nothing we can do.

Actually according to stats from 2002 the thing that kills most people is one or the other form of cardiovascular disease (I would've put my money on road accidents but hey...)
But that would only be a reasonable comparison the day a cardiovascular disease totes an AK47 and a suicide vest and kills hundreds of people according to a well planned attack.

As for socioeconomic factors, like I said the 'whys' are a completely different discussion. I'm sure there are many many reasons which would indirectly point towards how these people were wronged and mishandled in some way or another by someone or maybe were a result of unavoidable circumstances. But none of that excuses the current state of affairs.
And I agree, nothing can probably be done about it at this point of time. But nonetheless acknowledging that there is a problem is necessary.

I enjoy being the lone voice against the current surge of ignorance and bubbling xenophobia.

If you're talking about this thread in particular I'd say you're being a little harsh....is it xenophobic to discuss a problem supported by facts?
I've always been for tolerance and I'd be the first person to speak up if someone paints the whole religion with a single brush, but you cannot deny facts point to something being amiss.

[CrossLOPER]

I wasnt actually expecting someone to deflect that hard. It is rather sad really.

Learn to post sources that are not written by backwoods shack rapists.

[Fisherking]

Learn to post sources that are not written by backwoods shack rapists.

It is his source of data. If you want to discuss and argue, logic dictates that you can not disavow a source simply on your perceptions and predigest.

Ranting and raving about sources is not just childish, it is also a logical fallacy known as cherry picking. Then there is that ad hominem again.

Where is the proof of your accusation?

[Gilrandir]

is it xenophobic to discuss a problem supported by facts?

I've been called racist for being able to know a Mongol from a European by sight, so ...

[Fisherking]

I've been called racist for being able to know a Mongol from a European by sight, so ...

Then that is just a naked attempt to redefine meanings. And then only to suite their agenda.

It is also very hypocritical of them. They insist on enforcing a supposed standard of tolerance on people by being extremely intolerant and applying labels on them using their own arbitrary definitions.

It is an obvious fallacy. Perhaps, also a cognitive disorder.

[Greyblades]

Learn to post sources that are not written by backwoods shack rapists.

[Greyblades]

I realize that talking about no go zones is a futile effort as noone can agree what constitutes one and until it is officially recognised, like it is in sweden, it is impossible to establish their existance as immutable fact, despite several indicators that such places are developing.
A subset of society withdrawing from the rest is not new or unique, behavior like harrassing those who tresspass in thier "muslim areas" (as seen here and here ) would not seem out of place if done by US gang-bangers or Mexican cartels.

It is the extent that the muslims communities of britain go to segregate themselves that is the defining and most worrying part of the issue; going to the extent of attempting to replace the english common law through establishing sharia courts (Documented here and here) and there have been some attempts to enforce it upon others through threats and the occasional attack.

The replacement of the local law with an older extremely archaic systems and imposition of said law upon both its members and those who intrude upon thier territory is a mode of behavior completely unseen in all other British demographics native and immigrant.

[CrossLOPER]

Ranting and raving about sources is not just childish, it is also a logical fallacy known as cherry picking.

Irony.

This is an upgrade from your initial post. Well done.