IMMIGRATION thread

[Fragony]

It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along. Anyone sane would think, yes of course

[Husar]

It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along. Anyone sane would think, yes of course

Are they also asking for big fences and to be kept outside? I mean, what exactly is the point?

I mean most people use "there are jihadists among them" as an argument to keep all of them outside, should we only keep the ones who warn us of jihadis? Should we go "Thank you, now get out!"? I'm not entirely clear on the logic here. If we didn't accept any, we would have never known there are jihadis among them, now that we have a million, they told us that they brought some jihadis along? Did jihadis not manage to come to Europe before 2015?

[Fragony]

Apart from the jihadi's and rapefugees, gving false hope is just cruel. Nothing that was promised by the most cynical industry in the universe and suroundings is true, and as a well-meaning person I despise those who facilitate it. Merkel made herself the mutti of human-trafficking. Security-risks aside, she's got blood on her hands.

People who call me a bigot, you know who are, are you actually sheltering anyone, because I actually do that.

[Snowhobbit]

You mean that passport that had nothing to do with the terrorists? That one? The thing is, French intelligence have stated they were watching this cell and knew they had returned to Europe from Syria (so...not by sneaking in with refugees...otherwise EUROPOL would have evidence, wouldn't they.)...and then 'lost' them.

You know...it's so easy to get people to believe something...just write it as a headline story. Doesn't matter if the story is later shown to have no truth to it....it'll always be the thing that people remember. Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well....

Yes, that passport found in connection to the group which entered Greece last summer, that passport. It is funny that you think the French intelligence was watching the cell, when the head of the cell was presumed to be in Syria until he was found in Paris in the shoot-out a couple of days after the first attack. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument, it is for a good cause after all.

[Snowhobbit]

Are they also asking for big fences and to be kept outside? I mean, what exactly is the point?

I mean most people use "there are jihadists among them" as an argument to keep all of them outside, should we only keep the ones who warn us of jihadis? Should we go "Thank you, now get out!"? I'm not entirely clear on the logic here. If we didn't accept any, we would have never known there are jihadis among them, now that we have a million, they told us that they brought some jihadis along? Did jihadis not manage to come to Europe before 2015?

From my perspective the bigger issue is that we need to be better at rooting them out and getting them out of the country/life-time in jail. It is of great concern to me that people who have fled violence and terror will get to be room-mates with the people that they fled from. Given the massive degree of violence within our refugee shelters, it is clearly an issue. But to be clear, no the borders should not be closed in order to "keep the terrorists out". We have a bigger problem with home-grown terrorists than those coming with the influx I'm sure. We've certainly "exported" enough of them.

[Snowhobbit]

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

While it is nice of you to try to twist the argument, do note that he used the word "immigrant" and not refugee. Now of course I am sure you will explain how all of those North African men are native Germans :).

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Yes, that passport found in connection to the group which entered Greece last summer, that passport. It is funny that you think the French intelligence was watching the cell, when the head of the cell was presumed to be in Syria until he was found in Paris in the shoot-out a couple of days after the first attack. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument, it is for a good cause after all.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...di-backgrounds

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...e-failure.html

Al EU residents, all known. Tell me, given that they have legitimate EU passports....why would any of them be trying to use a false passport? And why would they take it with them on a terror attack, and leave it in a, presumably, loose pocket so that it could fall out?

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

While it is nice of you to try to twist the argument, do note that he used the word "immigrant" and not refugee. Now of course I am sure you will explain how all of those North African men are native Germans :).

But it is you who twisted the argument then, isn't it? You didn't correct the misapprehension by making clear that there is a distinction between immigrants and regugees, you simply transplanted the word immigrant for refugee. Given the context of the discussion that is, frankly, disingenuous.

[Snowhobbit]

But it is you who twisted the argument then, isn't it? You didn't correct the misapprehension by making clear that there is a distinction between immigrants and regugees, you simply transplanted the word immigrant for refugee. Given the context of the discussion that is, frankly, disingenuous.

No, you are the person who transplanted one word meaning one thing with another. I agree that is a very disingenuous way of arguing, but hey that is how you argue so I'm not sure why you are telling me. Do you not read what people post when you respond to them?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...di-backgrounds

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...e-failure.html

Al EU residents, all known. Tell me, given that they have legitimate EU passports....why would any of them be trying to use a false passport? And why would they take it with them on a terror attack, and leave it in a, presumably, loose pocket so that it could fall out?

Yes, what reason could they have for wanting to enter the country without the intelligence services knowing that they have? Maybe they planned to attack certain public places and didn't want to get stopped?

Obviously there was an intelligence failure that lead to the successful attack, same as how the shoot-out a few days later was in contrast successful. Do note btw that your articles do not claim what you say about the French intelligence forces knowing that he had come back to France. Of course they knew that these people were radicals, there are thousands of them on the list of radicals. But because I put a name on a list does not mean I know the whereabouts of that person. If they had returned using their own passports, then it would have been known and they would have been monitored.

[wooly_mammoth]

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

Well, there was that footage with a german woman, her eyes welling with tears as she was passed around and fondled all over by a large group of what I will politely call subhumans of non-european descent, but that too must be a part of the occult ruse aimed at concealing the real enemy of man, right?

[Fragony]

Don't bother she is lost by now, nobody wants to know what happened to her. You do, I do, but we are kinda alone. Just like her.

[Husar]

Apart from the jihadi's and rapefugees, gving false hope is just cruel. Nothing that was promised by the most cynical industry in the universe and suroundings is true, and as a well-meaning person I despise those who facilitate it. Merkel made herself the mutti of human-trafficking. Security-risks aside, she's got blood on her hands.

Now I'm even more confused. It's not cruel to human-traffic jihadis and rapefugees? And what was promised by human traffickers?

People who call me a bigot, you know who are, are you actually sheltering anyone, because I actually do that.

You like to mention that, don't you? Don't forget to mention that you can also afford to throw away 20k€ worth of clothes, if some did that they'd not nearly get there before they'd have to run around naked. It's good that you can afford it and do it, but don't be an ass about it like it makes you holier than thou.

[HopAlongBunny]

This is giving me flashbacks of: "None is too many"

[Sarmatian]

Don't bother she is lost by now, nobody wants to know what happened to her. You do, I do, but we are kinda alone. Just like her.

Frags, do you really don't understand the difference between a criminal and a rather large group of people the criminal belongs too, or are you playing dumb?

Two days ago an Uber driver shot 6 people in Kalamazoo. Which group do we hold responsible? Uber drivers, Americans, Christians or white males?

[Husar]

Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Angela Merkel doesn't know what she's doing. She knows exactly what she's doing.

[Fragony]

Now I'm even more confused. It's not cruel to human-traffic jihadis and rapefugees? And what was promised by human traffickers?



You like to mention that, don't you? Don't forget to mention that you can also afford to throw away 20k€ worth of clothes, if some did that they'd not nearly get there before they'd have to run around naked. It's good that you can afford it and do it, but don't be an ass about it like it makes you holier than thou.

20.000 lol, no Hussie a zero too many. My mom wanted to take these clothes to the laundry and accidently threw them away with the trash from my sister's house. Lots of trash she's a bit of a swine. But alas I'll help when I can, I can therefore I am. Reality is that in reality I am a much nicer person than those who say I'm not and make stupid insinuations. I shouldn't have told that I actually give people a place to stay because now it looks like I am making a point out of it

[Snowhobbit]

And what was promised by human traffickers?

I'm not sure what was promised in the case of Germany, but in the case of Sweden what was promised was good housing, easy access to the job market, a safe place in which you'd be able to quickly reunite with your family. This was to some extent also promised by our politicians "there are no limits to how many we can take" etc.

Now what we have is a migration system that is breaking down, widespread abuse of refugees and refugee children, year long waits to get your permits so that you can start to integrate in society, currently looking at a minimum of about 3-4 years to bring your family here, more once the changes to make that harder take effect. There is no good housing supplied to them at all, the government is repeatedly failing to uphold the things required of it, both on a national and local level. The whole thing is a mess and a massive expenditure. It will take strong measure to resolve this, and in the meanwhile one of the two government parties is saying that the moment we are not drowning they will once more open the floodgates.

[Sarmatian]

I shouldn't have told that I actually give people a place to stay because now it looks like I am making a point out of it

You can help one person a still be a bigot. It's a case "I have black friends, but..."

[Fragony]

You can help one person a still be a bigot. It's a case "I have black friends, but..."

That has become a cliché of it's own. I know myself way too well to not care if someone calls me a bigot. What used to offend me I only find pathetic now; the morally rightious who's spell they cast is losing power every time they cast it

BIGOTUS!

wut, yeah right kthxbye

[Husar]

20.000 lol, no Hussie a zero too many.

Yes, my mistake.
The question is why you always want closed borders, apparently for pretty much everyone, and yet say you want to help. Looking at it from the outside it makes little sense. On the other side I'm not aware of anyone on this forum who sends invitations to jihadists, yet there seem to be plenty of accusations like that thrown around.

The argument that not only doctors and lawyers come is just as silly as the one that only doctors and lawyers come because if only doctors and lawyers are worth saving, that's class warfare!

[Fragony]

I really can't add anything to what Krazelic already said

[Gilrandir]

Reality is that in reality I am a much nicer person than those who say I'm not and make stupid insinuations. I shouldn't have told that I actually give people a place to stay because now it looks like I am making a point out of it

The question is why you always want closed borders, apparently for pretty much everyone, and yet say you want to help. Looking at it from the outside it makes little sense.

It does make sense:
http://www.psychlotron.org.uk/resour...es_lapiere.pdf

[Sarmatian]

That has become a cliché of it's own. I know myself way too well to not care if someone calls me a bigot. What used to offend me I only find pathetic now; the morally rightious who's spell they cast is losing power every time they cast it

BIGOTUS!

wut, yeah right kthxbye

Then why try to prove it constantly?

Not at related to the discussion, but Harry Potter references are incredibly lame.

[Fragony]

Then why try to prove it constantly?

Because there is constantly unfair insinuation. You are a good example of that yourself. You aren't that bad but it's tiring to constantly having to explain yourself. Times are changing gladly, the monopoly on morality is no longer a given for the leftist church. The leftist-church isn't used to actually defending their views and resort to all they know and all that worked, redicule and insinuations, but reality is catching up fast. Harry Potter references aren't lame as the politically correct live in a world that doesn't exist no matter how much they want to.

[Sarmatian]

Because there is constantly unfair insinuation. You are a good example of that yourself. You aren't that bad but it's tiring to constantly having to explain yourself. Times are changing gladly, the monopoly on morality is no longer a given for the leftist church. The leftist-church isn't used to actually defending their views and resort to all they know and all that worked, redicule and insinuations, but reality is catching up fast. Harry Potter references aren't lame as the politically correct live in a world that doesn't exist no matter how much they want to.

This isn't about political correctness. This is about people suffering. I know first hand how it feels when you are discriminated against, and that was absolutely minute compared to what these people are experiencing every single day.

Yes, I would like to at least try to help. To at least try to identify the sincere ones before everyone is sent back. To do utmost to minimize the risks. Can we eliminate the risks? No, not completely, but I'm willing to live with that. I'm taking risks every time I step out the door and statistics tells me there's much greater chance that I will die in a car crash than from a terrorist attack.

Do you truly feel that is so ludicrous? And there simple can't be talks about it because you've been on autopilot for the last year with wir schaffen das, rapefugees, hyenas, insane childless mutti and whatever other stormfront like catch phrases you've been using.
Not just here, but everywhere. Youtube and article comments are filled with words like rats, subhumans, cattle... Yes, I know haters tend to be more active, there's always a silent majority but regardless...

People are refusing to acknowledge that those people coming into Europe are not all the same. It is not a single monolithic block. We instinctively understand that when it comes to our group - how much mental work is needed to understand it is the same for refugees?

[Fragony]

If you are going to associate me with stormfront we have nothing to say to eachother, don't bother reaching out

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

No, you are the person who transplanted one word meaning one thing with another. I agree that is a very disingenuous way of arguing, but hey that is how you argue so I'm not sure why you are telling me. Do you not read what people post when you respond to them?

Ok....let us have a quick resumé of this part of the discussion. I pointed out that

"Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well...."

To which the response was made;

"Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants."

You'll note that this response is not an acceptance of my point, that it was not refugees. This argument is NOT...'you are correct, they were not refugees they were other immigrants, but was a clear conflation of the two terms. The term 'immigrants' has simply been transplanted for 'refugees' but has been used synonymously. Not for the first or last time within the discussion (see the later "It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along." - referring to refugees)

So your claim that the word is being used distinctly from the term 'refugees' is at best limpid inattention...of course one need only look back over the discussion to check the voracity of one's position.

Of course...there are certain sections of societies who are opposed to immigration more generally...and for whom the refugees are simply another burden upon more...righteous? nations.....and tying them to terrorism is an easy 'out'.....'it's not that I've got anything against these people but.....they might be dangerous'

Yes, what reason could they have for wanting to enter the country without the intelligence services knowing that they have? Maybe they planned to attack certain public places and didn't want to get stopped?

Obviously there was an intelligence failure that lead to the successful attack, same as how the shoot-out a few days later was in contrast successful. Do note btw that your articles do not claim what you say about the French intelligence forces knowing that he had come back to France. Of course they knew that these people were radicals, there are thousands of them on the list of radicals. But because I put a name on a list does not mean I know the whereabouts of that person. If they had returned using their own passports, then it would have been known and they would have been monitored.

Except....you'll note that Europol accept that they have no evidence that Jihadists are travelling with refugees (look here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6738821.html - there are even questions raised as to whether the passport was planted in order to sow discontent and distrust (so that all of this fear-mongering is EXACTLY WHAT the terrorists want....so hats off to you all for your impressive victory over terrrorism, eh? ) which suggests that they know how and when these EU passport holders re-entered the EU.....

[AE Bravo]

Tough to burst the bubble, it's white privilege.

Yes, it's EUs responsibility to some extent. Thank you for assuming responsibility.

[Husar]

If you are going to associate me with stormfront we have nothing to say to eachother, don't bother reaching out

Maybe you should express your thoughts a bit clearer and not use so many words that you either made up or adopted from Pat Condell or so.

[Greyblades]

Tough to burst the bubble, it's white privilege.

Yes, it's EUs responsibility to some extent. Thank you for assuming responsibility.