IMMIGRATION thread

[Sarmatian]

For the purpose of counting as employed 1 hour a week is sufficient. Which is why I mention it, because that is how the stats are tracked, and people think it means more than it does.

That is disingenuous. You mention 25% working full time. People working 1 hour a week are not working full time. Thus, you eliminate a significant number of immigrants working part time. Instead of calling you a liar, I'll assume you made an honest mistake and mixed some numbers up.

We do not have a huge issue with workers being exploited due to strong unions and labour laws, maybe things are different in your country?

Migrants are always exploited, especially in the first few years while they are still "getting their bearings". Less in Sweden than some other countries but it happens and much more than you think. There almost isn't a person from former Yugoslavia who didn't have to work some shitty job, with long hours and lousy pay, in the grey part of the economy for a few years after arriving in Sweden.

Surprisingly we do not count children in the employment statistics...

But you count them among migrants.

In comparison natives in the age group 18-67 69%are full time employed, this number is consistent, for refugees it reaches an amazing 34% after 15 years. 8 years is a long time, let alone 15 years. You might want to look more at the numbers if you think a three children, mother and father is the typical group either. If you have a way of doing statistics without bunching people up into groups I'm all ears.

Again, you're counting all migrants and only working age natives. There are currently 4,8 million workers in Sweden out of a population of 9,8 million, which comes to about 49% employment overall. Again, I'm not going to call you a liar, I'll assume you made an honest mistake and mixed some numbers up.

A kid aged 7 will just be graduating from a university after 15 years.

I hate to ask again, do you not know what socioeconomic factors means?

I read it the first time and it was a stupid question the first time. I've extended you the courtesy of engaging in a serious discussion with you. Be a smart ass somewhere else, or with someone else.

[Snowhobbit]

That is disingenuous. You mention 25% working full time. People working 1 hour a week are not working full time. Thus, you eliminate a significant number of immigrants working part time. Instead of calling you a liar, I'll assume you made an honest mistake and mixed some numbers up.



Migrants are always exploited, especially in the first few years while they are still "getting their bearings". Less in Sweden than some other countries but it happens and much more than you think. There almost isn't a person from former Yugoslavia who didn't have to work some shitty job, with long hours and lousy pay, in the grey part of the economy for a few years after arriving in Sweden.



But you count them among migrants.



Again, you're counting all migrants and only working age natives. There are currently 4,8 million workers in Sweden out of a population of 9,8 million, which comes to about 49% employment overall. Again, I'm not going to call you a liar, I'll assume you made an honest mistake and mixed some numbers up.

A kid aged 7 will just be graduating from a university after 15 years.



I read it the first time and it was a stupid question the first time. I've extended you the courtesy of engaging in a serious discussion with you. Be a smart ass somewhere else, or with someone else.

To clarify, a number that gets flung around a lot is that 50%are employed after 7 years. In fact to qualify as employed 1 hour worked on the week that the survey is done is enough to qualify as employed. Hence full time is a more useful metric. All of the numbers are only counting working age people, none of the numbers are counting children. I hope the above will help prevent any unclarity or misunderstanding. A large part of my friend circle and my family are immigrants, and a significant part of my colleagues have been immigrants, yet other than the exploitation of berry pickers there really aren't much of an issue.

The study about criminality accounts for socioeconomic factors which is why I ask if you do not understand the word since you keep bringing up poverty. Not sure why poor people would rape and murder more often in a welfare society where they will still have by most standards a good life. And such factors are accounted for. Bringing up poverty when that has been accounted for seems to me to be the stupid thing to do.

[Husar]

To clarify, a number that gets flung around a lot is that 50%are employed after 7 years. In fact to qualify as employed 1 hour worked on the week that the survey is done is enough to qualify as employed. Hence full time is a more useful metric.

But the assumption that all or even most of the part-time workers only work one hour and should therefore be excluded entirely seems strange.

[Snowhobbit]

But the assumption that all or even most of the part-time workers only work one hour and should therefore be excluded entirely seems strange.

The point is that since that data includes anyone from full time to one hour that one week that they asked, the data is useless. I should also clarify that this data includes people on the salary support systems where the government pays 80% of your salary, while the 25% after 8 years is not only full-time but also excludes jobs where the government is paying your salary in this manner. If data can be found that includes reasonable part-time workers that would be great. But do note that full time working age only compares with full time working age people.

[Snowhobbit]

As a side-note to highlight the issue, after 5 years 91% of refugee women are unemployed, using the more generous measure of employment where even 1 hour that week that is tax financed to 80%.

What are the employment figures for Germany comparing refugees to natives?