IMMIGRATION thread

[Kadagar_AV]

I don't believe open immigration is always a sound policy. But what are the actual numbers on the current situation? How many people are moving from where to where? Why are they leaving their current countries, and why do they want to come to western europe?

My suspicion is that:

Why would anyone care about your suspicions? Personally I will just shoot them down because I care about other members on this board.

- There are legitimate reasons (humanitarian, political and economic) why they are leaving their countries

Huh?

Under what law is it OK to go to another country because of economic reasons?

- Often the reasons are to do with western european nations being complicit in destabilizing their countries

Actually certain cultures are like GREAT at destabilizing their surroundings all on their own.

Russians took Swedes as slaves some hundred years ago... So because of that I shouldn't get a job, nor fight for my nations survival and well being.

Is that really an excuse in your reality?

- The current levels of migration are nothing unusual in historical terms

We must have studied different classes then.

Last time we had this kind of immigration in Europe it lead to what is called the "Dark Age".

You know, because the Vandals and stuff...

What does "Vandal" today mean?

If you still have questions about this, I would recommend you to play this game called Rome TOTAL WAR Barbaric Invasion.

- The situation is being hyped up by politicians, news channels and newspapers to generate a story

The problems are real. You might want to continue living in some la-la land, but the cold hard facts are that immigration from certain cultures are extremely problematic to include in a western society.

- More immigration is happening in poorer countries where the impact is higher than in western europe

True, mainly because the neighbouring nations are close to the bad culture that created the fuss, both culturally and geographically speaking.

The correct answer to these issues is to hold the bad culture that made the fuss at arms length, but help them in any way we can when they humbly ask for help.

Importing the bad culture will NEVER be the answer to combat it.

- Western europeans are merrily travelling/moving around the world and will reject any controls on this

Westerners have been proved to accept controls if it raise their survival chance... Check airport security.

And why do we have that type of airport security? Bad politicians for a start, of course...

But let's also remember it is because we let Arabs fly on our planes.

- The wealthy are benefiting most from immigration, and yet are orchestrating the hate from working people against immigrants

Conspiracy theory much?

General hate against the wealthy?

NO ONE is a net winner from this immigration, rich dudes also have their daughter raped and their cars scratched... Difference is that they can afford the psychological help and car insurance. The damage is still done though.

I retract the point... SOMEONE is a winner from it... ISIS as an example... Right now we have several hundred "Swedish people" doing the usual nice Muslim thingy that ISIS does.

I'm so proud to pay taxes so that ISIS fighters can go back to Sweden to rest some before they have to go back and you know, make the world hell.

There you go - some targets to shoot at.

Fish in a barrel...

[Tuuvi]

If you still have questions about this, I would recommend you to play this game called Rome TOTAL WAR Barbaric Invasion.

Dude, seriously? You're citing a Total War game as a legitimate source of information?

......

[Fragony]

Dude, seriously? You're citing a Total War game as a legitimate source of information?

......

Owww you get the point. Historically mentioning the barbarian invasion isn't that odd a thing to say, it was a gradual thing long before Rome fell, Rome had already drasticly changed because of immigrants settling. Tensions between Romans and immigrants were high. Sweden is taking in WAY too many immigrants, from the most backward places of the world, and ethnic Swedes just have to deal with it.

[InsaneApache]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeeh...en-polls-show/

[Gilrandir]

Which explains why the innuit dominate the world and the Hong Kong and Singaporeans are a poor and miserable people.

I spoke of the initial stages of humankind development and all the nations (including the ones you bring into your example) are much later creations.
But if we discuss them, Inniut live in what refers to "cold climate regions" and the others have moved their from the north - the regions of moderate climate.

On a completely separate note, I would like to see what life is like in New Zeeland, seems like a nice place to live.

Watch The Lord of the Rings for a closer view at landscapes.

[Fragony]

That, or watch 'Once were Warriors' for a healthy dose of reality

[Fragony]

Idaho has good intentions. So do I by the way I am actually sheltering a homeless Somali refugugee right now. np

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Dude, seriously? You're citing a Total War game as a legitimate source of information?

......

In the end, Rome will fall - it always does.

The only question is "Will I live to see it?" and it's pure arrogance to believe you won't, that you and your children are safe.

What we are witnessing is increasing mass migration at a time when our societies are militarily, economically and socially weak. We are vulnerable to external pressure, we are not equipped to absorb the sheer number of people flooding across our borders and our societies could collapse in a few decades if we are not careful. Our horizens have already contracted over the last fifty years, the US is the only remaining power in our cultural Bloc, first Germany and then France and Britain have fallen into what may be perpetual decay.

We hem and haw over this new Caliph but do little to stop him when a hundred years ago we would have flattened him on general principle for being a barbarian.

[Greyblades]

Could have sworn we dont hem and haw because we can't do anything but because we don't care any more.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Could have sworn we dont hem and haw because we can't do anything but because we don't care any more.

Apathy is a symptom of the decline, not a cause.

We would hem and haw considerably less if if we had HMS Vanguard and her battlegroup to just sit off the Levantine Coast and blow stuff up.

I am not ashamed to say that the thought of half a dozen Vanguard-Class Battleships delivering righteous British correction to this Caliph and ungodly hordes sets my heart aflutter much like a debutante at her coming out.

Remember, despite what your mother may have told you, Aircraft Carriers are not a measure of Naval Supremacy.

[Husar]

Apathy is a symptom of the decline, not a cause.

We would hem and haw considerably less if if we had HMS Vanguard and her battlegroup to just sit off the Levantine Coast and blow stuff up.

And all the innocent people with him?
A hundred years ago you would have sent boots on the ground to dislodge him and sent a lot of condolences to crying mothers for the next 50 years or more. Wasn't the latter the reason that everybody left Afghanistan to that other caliph?

[Fragony]

We have plenty of experience with boots here at least

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And all the innocent people with him?
A hundred years ago you would have sent boots on the ground to dislodge him and sent a lot of condolences to crying mothers for the next 50 years or more. Wasn't the latter the reason that everybody left Afghanistan to that other caliph?

As opposed to all the letters of condolence we send to all the Yazadi women after they were raped.

[Kadagar_AV]

Dude, seriously? You're citing a Total War game as a legitimate source of information?

......

From that long post of mine, where I more or less refuted each and every point you had made... Your only comment is that I mentioned a TW game on a TW forum?

It was more used to show your lack of understanding, than as a legitimate source, surely you must have got that?

You had written:

- The current levels of migration are nothing unusual in historical terms

That is just plain wrong. You for some reason, political agenda or just lack of knowledge, try to normalize the MASSIVE immigration we are seeing.

Last we had even comparable numbers of immigration to Europe, it caused the fall of the first democratic(ish-prototype) empire, caused widespread degeneration, and generally resulted in what is called the "Dark Ages".

So, well, get your facts straight.

[Kadagar_AV]

To anyone who is against my idea to sink the damn boats in the harbour before they set out, and drag any boats we find back to Africa...

Today I heard there was some sort of new record, with 18 ships/boats needing help... The largest had around 350 people on board...




To those who dislike my ideas, what would your own answers be? It's easy to criticize ideas you know, but why don't you come up with something better?


The situation we have no is not good for ANYONE, not us in Europe, nor them in Africa.

Something needs to be done, and fast. Just look at Macedonia currently, Police and Military having to show shock grenades and shoot rubber bullets to try and control the tide of immigrants...

And yet it's not enough to stop them, thousands still make it through a day...

I mean, I get it, they want to live in the west. I also wouldn't want to live in Africa... But at some point you have to agree that only Africa can solve African problems. We should help them, sure.

But the solution is not to move the African population here.

[Husar]

To anyone who is against my idea to sink the damn boats in the harbour before they set out, and drag any boats we find back to Africa...

Today I heard there was some sort of new record, with 18 ships/boats needing help... The largest had around 350 people on board...




To those who dislike my ideas, what would your own answers be? It's easy to criticize ideas you know, but why don't you come up with something better?


The situation we have no is not good for ANYONE, not us in Europe, nor them in Africa.

Something needs to be done, and fast. Just look at Macedonia currently, Police and Military having to show shock grenades and shoot rubber bullets to try and control the tide of immigrants...

And yet it's not enough to stop them, thousands still make it through a day...

I mean, I get it, they want to live in the west. I also wouldn't want to live in Africa... But at some point you have to agree that only Africa can solve African problems. We should help them, sure.

But the solution is not to move the African population here.

Macedonia, Africans? The ones storming Macedonia are mostly Syrians. Most of the Africans go to Italy and Spain, not to Greece.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/22/eu...igrant-crisis/

Amid scenes of misery, thousands of migrants -- most of them fleeing Syria's bitter conflict -- remained stranded Saturday in a no-man's land on the border between northern Greece and Macedonia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34026114

Should we give them guns and send them back to Syria to fix their country?

[Kadagar_AV]

Macedonia, Africans? The ones storming Macedonia are mostly Syrians. Most of the Africans go to Italy and Spain, not to Greece.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/22/eu...igrant-crisis/



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34026114

Should we give them guns and send them back to Syria to fix their country?

Yepp, most are Syrians... And I honestly don't want those migration hordes lose in the society around me either...


You still just bitch about other peoples thoughts, how would you solve it?



To be quite frank, we could take every white European and move him to Africa, and then take all black/Arabic Africans and move them to Europe...

Infrastructure and everything intact as it is today.


And let's face it, a hundred years later we would have a fully functional Africa and a Europe gone to hell.




So again Husar, what do you argue would be a better way to solve it?




I say, do all we can NOT to let these types of people into functional cultures, and do our best to help them sort out their own cultural issues.



You propose... ... ... ... ... ... ??

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It's worth pointing out that many of the Syrians have gone to Turkey, then Greece, then Macedonia then into Western Europe via the Balkans.

At some point there they must have stopped being refugees and become economic migrants.

[Husar]

You propose... ... ... ... ... ... ??

How about you read what I proposed?

[Tuuvi]

From that long post of mine, where I more or less refuted each and every point you had made... Your only comment is that I mentioned a TW game on a TW forum?

It was more used to show your lack of understanding, than as a legitimate source, surely you must have got that?

You had written:



That is just plain wrong. You for some reason, political agenda or just lack of knowledge, try to normalize the MASSIVE immigration we are seeing.

Last we had even comparable numbers of immigration to Europe, it caused the fall of the first democratic(ish-prototype) empire, caused widespread degeneration, and generally resulted in what is called the "Dark Ages".

So, well, get your facts straight.

I wasn't the one you were replying to, that was Idaho. And besides that I just thought you made a silly comment, I wasn't trying to argue your point.

[Kadagar_AV]

I wasn't the one you were replying to, that was Idaho. And besides that I just thought you made a silly comment, I wasn't trying to argue your point.

Oooooooooooops

[Fragony]

Leftist people don't have to click, you can't see it it will never reach your mental hardisc so don't bother. For the rest, second video.

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven....html#comments

refugees...

[Beskar]

Europe must open official channels for migrants - UN
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34049512

Why is EU struggling with migrants and asylum ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24583286

Interesting articles which is on topic.