IMMIGRATION thread

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I get the first two because they can be quite irrational, but you have to explain why it is clear thinking to stay in a rotten condition that you can hardly improve if you have alternatives? I wouldn't propose that to the CEO of a failing company if you actually want the job...



If this were a game about being wrong, you'd be really good at it. One time you complain that I make too many nazi references, and then I'm too afraid of being looked at as a nazi. People who are like that don't mention Hitler usually.

As for the moon thing, yeah, can't afford that so we plan Mars colonies and asteroid mining instead...

To be fair, Husar, I'm pretty sure it was me who accused you of making too many Nazi references.

Now, I realise that to you Kad and I may have blurred into a single entity but we're actually two separate people, and we probably disagree on as much as we agree.

I also complained about you being dismissive.

So.

[Husar]

To be fair, Husar, I'm pretty sure it was me who accused you of making too many Nazi references.

Because it's impossible that you both did?

I also complained about you being dismissive.

I used to be way too defensive until I figured I can just respond in kind at times. Makes some people angry though if you treat them the way they treat you.

[Kadagar_AV]

Because it's impossible that you both did?



I used to be way too defensive until I figured I can just respond in kind at times. Makes some people angry though if you treat them the way they treat you.

And you do a jolly good work, mate :D

[Montmorency]

PVC, the Germanic migrations contributed to the end of Roman power because decentralization attended their incorporation. So the point is not just the presence of the refugees, or even of the lack of a systematic EU policy toward them, but what the latter really indicates about the strength of the central EU authority vis-a-vis the attitudes of nations and national governments. Let's invite Putin to be emergency dictator of the EU; we can check back in after 5 years. Putin, or Merkel, at any rate.

[Kadagar_AV]

PVC, the Germanic migrations contributed to the end of Roman power because decentralization attended their incorporation. So the point is not just the presence of the refugees, or even of the lack of a systematic EU policy toward them, but what the latter really indicates about the strength of the central EU authority vis-a-vis the attitudes of nations and national governments. Let's invite Putin to be emergency dictator of the EU; we can check back in after 5 years. Putin, or Merkel, at any rate.

I think we might have differing history books...

First of all, the option is not Putin or Merkel, there sure are third and fourth options.

Secondly, the Roman Empire, by and large, civilized Europe. Not without false steps, blood, toil, you know... ... .. All of those things that make a civilization just that.

It's vehemently false, to blaim the fall of the Roman Empire on the Germanics. If you look at the several hundred years of history of the Roman Empire, you will see that they actually more worked in the way of: "Move in, and have the enemy join your legions".

Cooperation at first, iron fist if it didn't work.

And I know the history books love the "when it didn't work", but hey. Let's remember they didn't build the damn ROMAN EMPIRE because they were stupid.

The Roman Empire, father of the western civilization, basically went under the last time Europe had a influence of non-Europeans like now.

I think it is referred to as "The Dark Ages" or something like that.


With that said, I am of course SO happy to invite our darker skinned fellow humans to my place. So what if they scream ALLAHU AKBAR at free-speech lectures at universities!!??

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

PVC, the Germanic migrations contributed to the end of Roman power because decentralization attended their incorporation. So the point is not just the presence of the refugees, or even of the lack of a systematic EU policy toward them, but what the latter really indicates about the strength of the central EU authority vis-a-vis the attitudes of nations and national governments. Let's invite Putin to be emergency dictator of the EU; we can check back in after 5 years. Putin, or Merkel, at any rate.

The point is thousands of Visigoths sacked Rome, then the Vandals sacked and half-ruined Carthage whilst the Huns raided the Danube and destroyed the manufacturing capacity, plus all the other disasters the Germanics inflicted.

Now, to be fair, the if the Empire had not suffered such internal upheaval this would not have been so much of a problem but the fact remains that the Vandals took Africa, the Visigoths took Spain, the Franks took Gaul and finally Odoacer took Italy.

These men arrived within the Empire fleeing the Huns, the Romans moved them around because they didn't know what to do with them and one by one each group of "refugees" revolted and took a part of the Empire for themselves. They were able to do this because they were far more bellicose than the Roman civilians.

[Gilrandir]

Your really think that a father will risk the life of his children and his wife just to get a better life, in the economic sense? He wanted a life.

If refugees just wanted a life, they would stop their quest in the first place where no bombs fell. Instead, they go all the way through Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Hungary, Austria to reach the promised land of Germany. Evidently, it is more than "just a life" if they don't stay in, say, Hungary or Greece. It is the life in a richer country with free food and prospects of getting subsidies from the mellower government.

Now, I realise that to you Kad and I may have blurred into a single entity but we're actually two separate people, and we probably disagree on as much as we agree.

Oh, come on! Next thing you will be saying is that one of you is English and another is Swedish.

These men arrived within the Empire fleeing the Huns, the Romans moved them around because they didn't know what to do with them and one by one each group of "refugees" revolted and took a part of the Empire for themselves. They were able to do this because they were far more bellicose than the Roman civilians.

Yet the Eastern empire weathered the assault. Were its citizens different from their western counterparts in the degree of bellicoseness?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

[QUOTE=Gilrandir;2053654895]Oh, come on! Next thing you will be saying is that one of you is English and another is Swedish.\/quote]

Actually, I'm part Swedish.

Yet the Eastern empire weathered the assault. Were its citizens different from their western counterparts in the degree of bellicoseness?

There are a number of reasons but it comes down to geography, the Rhine frontier was the one most often breached and as a result Gaul was repeatedly sacked, the Eastern Empire was also more densely populated and had shorter overall borders, making it easier to defend.

Most essentially, however, they had more cash.