IMMIGRATION thread

[a completely inoffensive name]

If this is a sentence I can't find it.

It's just a massive run on sentence. Let me elaborate what I am trying to say.

Everyone who called US led policy in the Middle East 'callous' is naive. Those who blame all the ills of the middle east on the US are naive. Many of the neighboring arab countries are playing Europe as naive. How many refugees has Saudi Arabia taken? Egypt? Algeria? These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

The whole area is full of regimes that from the 1950s are nothing but opportunistic. Once they felt they could, they tried to destroy Israel, once they felt they could, they embargo'd oil, once they felt they could, they promoted Islamic terrorism and funded radical Islamic thoughts to undermine Western influence. Now many of these same countries feel that they can get away with refusing to take in Syrians because they know EU policies and morals will force Europe to take in everyone who tries to come in. They promote this as well, as there is no reason why many of these refugees cannot simply find safe refuge in the first EU countries they come across (typically Greece and Hungary). Instead it is obvious they have fed a message of "Get to Germany or bust".

You are getting played and it is becoming more and more obvious by the minute. Why are the vast majority of refugees men other than to exploit the German legal system that allows declared refugees the right to bring their families along with them?

My point of view is that the Syrian civil war is solely a middle east problem that should be resolved by the middle east community and instead it is being guilt tripped onto Europe. The sad thing is that many Europeans are going along with the guilt trip.

And if you think I'm some monster or ignoramous because of this oh well. My hope is for Europe to remain the bastion of social democracy that I can point to in order to bring America up to European standards (e.g. health care). I don't like seeing Sweden's right wing party jump from 2% to 25% of the vote and I don't like seeing UKIP getting media attention in the UK. The refugee situation is only feeding these groups more and more.

[Montmorency]

These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, I suppose if I'm living through the fall of Rome I should become a bishop - a Roman bishop riding a Challenger II Tank.

This is going to go one of two ways - Europe degrades under the weight of the incomers and continues its slow collapse or it pulls together at the last moment and the EU emerges as a new state - one means decades of gradually deteriorating living standards and the painful collapse of our civilisation - the other means fire and blood and death.

If the EU does become a real country we need to move the Capital to somewhere nicer than Brussels - and more central so that the South and East gets screwed less.



Rome is quite central, and it has a lovely climate...

Now...

Who can we make Emperor?

[Kadagar_AV]

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

Montmorency, can you do me a personal favour?

Look at the number of refugees the Gulf States (Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) accept.

Then bear in mind that Saudi Arabia alone, has SUPER QUALITY TENTS that can host 3 million people, standing unused, as they only use them one time a year for religious reasons...

Bear in mind that Saudi Arabia has recently went out with THEIR support of the refugees, to build 200 mosques in Germany..

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_8115492.html

Let's remember that these are nations culturally WAY more close than ours.





What is your analysis of this?

And yes, I ask you for a personal favour, only thing I give you in return is that you have +1.

[Gilrandir]

Then bear in mind that Saudi Arabia alone, has SUPER QUALITY TENTS that can host 3 million people, standing unused, as they only use them one time a year for religious reasons...

C'mon! They can't even handle 1000 times fewer crowd:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34231620

[Fragony]

Pic http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/10...-any-refugees/

closer look http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/08...-of-tents.html

[a completely inoffensive name]

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

Algeria is actually a bit farther from Syria than germany, but off the top of my head it is a member of OPEC and does somewhat well for itself. I remember reading somewhere that they have already taken in 25,000-30,000 people.

I didn't know that about Egypt actually. Then again, I'm not surprised since the UK never bothered to even adopt Schengen. My point is that while Egypt has taken in ~150,000 refugees (0.17% of the Egyptian population), why is Germany taking 800,000 (0.98% of Germany's population)? Also, while the UK has not directly accepted refugees it has sent over one billion pounds in aid to Syria, which is more than almost any other country.

According to Amnesty International, "The six Gulf countries - Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain - have offered zero resettlement places to Syrian refugees."

If these countries were to participate in their fair share of refugees, they could absorb over two million refugees.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Welp, it finally happened. Kad and I practically made the same post.

No offense Kad, but I'm going to bow out and read some more on this issue. I just want to make sure I really, really​ understand what's happened before I commit to this position.

[Montmorency]

Kad, check earlier in the thread for a discussion of the matter between Viking and myself.

The Gulf states, apart from any evil conspiracy to make the decadent West collapse in on itself, are quite aware of the political risks to themselves of taking in so many refugees.

Regardless of all that, sure, it would be nice if EU states at least publicly demanded major concessions from the Gulf states for the trouble.

[Pannonian]

Kad, check earlier in the thread for a discussion of the matter between Viking and myself.

The Gulf states, apart from any evil conspiracy to make the decadent West collapse in on itself, are quite aware of the political risks to themselves of taking in so many refugees.

Regardless of all that, sure, it would be nice if EU states at least publicly demanded major concessions from the Gulf states for the trouble.

And prepare to go through with our threats of dumping the refugees back in Syria if they break their word. Which they will, so we might as well prepare for the latter now. If the Syrians have nowhere else to go other than into fellow Arab states, then the latter will collapse. Whatever happens, we should be weaning ourselves off from middle eastern oil. Even Russia is a more reliable energy supplier, being as they are closer to our mindset.

[Montmorency]

nd prepare to go through with our threats of dumping the refugees back in Syria if they break their word.

Er, no. That would not immediately impact the peninsula, but it would outrage and seriously threaten Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, and even Iran. In fact, that's practically a dream for the Saudis.

[Kadagar_AV]

Welp, it finally happened. Kad and I practically made the same post.

No offense Kad, but I'm going to bow out and read some more on this issue. I just want to make sure I really, really​ understand what's happened before I commit to this position.

What happened is that you realised that I wasn't the racist idiot many think, mate ;)

The more you read up the happier I will be :)

Montmorency, so +1 then.

[Kadagar_AV]

Monty, On a second note... No...

I want your ANALYSIS of my specific question for you to get a +1...

I mean, I actually want you to share what you think. Of my specific point and view at large.

Sorry if I missed stuff, but for a +1 you could at least go to the bottom of your heart on this :)

[Montmorency]

Monty, On a second note... No...

I want your ANALYSIS of my specific question for you to get a +1...

I mean, I actually want you to share what you think. Of my specific point and view at large.

Sorry if I missed stuff, but for a +1 you could at least go to the bottom of your heart on this :)

Are you asking something about refugee distributions, or the offer to build mosques? I figure it's the latter.

My analysis.

[AE Bravo]

Dump the refugees on Lebanon, Israel, and ESPECIALLY the Islamic Republic of LOLran. Saudi Arabia too.

[Husar]

I have time and time again on these boards said that I believe the world would be a better place if around 10% of the population in every country was foreign - spread from all over the world.

Since I do not remember a single instance of you saying that, how about you link me to some? Let's say three instances minimum and you get a +1 if you link me five.

It's just a massive run on sentence. Let me elaborate what I am trying to say.

Everyone who called US led policy in the Middle East 'callous' is naive. Those who blame all the ills of the middle east on the US are naive. Many of the neighboring arab countries are playing Europe as naive. How many refugees has Saudi Arabia taken? Egypt? Algeria? These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

The whole area is full of regimes that from the 1950s are nothing but opportunistic. Once they felt they could, they tried to destroy Israel, once they felt they could, they embargo'd oil, once they felt they could, they promoted Islamic terrorism and funded radical Islamic thoughts to undermine Western influence. Now many of these same countries feel that they can get away with refusing to take in Syrians because they know EU policies and morals will force Europe to take in everyone who tries to come in. They promote this as well, as there is no reason why many of these refugees cannot simply find safe refuge in the first EU countries they come across (typically Greece and Hungary). Instead it is obvious they have fed a message of "Get to Germany or bust".

You are getting played and it is becoming more and more obvious by the minute. Why are the vast majority of refugees men other than to exploit the German legal system that allows declared refugees the right to bring their families along with them?

My point of view is that the Syrian civil war is solely a middle east problem that should be resolved by the middle east community and instead it is being guilt tripped onto Europe. The sad thing is that many Europeans are going along with the guilt trip.

And if you think I'm some monster or ignoramous because of this oh well. My hope is for Europe to remain the bastion of social democracy that I can point to in order to bring America up to European standards (e.g. health care). I don't like seeing Sweden's right wing party jump from 2% to 25% of the vote and I don't like seeing UKIP getting media attention in the UK. The refugee situation is only feeding these groups more and more.

Thank you for this reply. It actually made me think a bit and you may have a point. The obvious sarcastic reply is "but the Saudis are our friends" and the truth behind it is that we helped these people stay in power, which IIRC was among the things I criticized about our handling of the region. And by our I do not just mean the US but also Europe. If it hadn't been for all the oil money and the weapon deliveries, these countries might look and behave quite different today, but that's a what-if.

As for my position on refugees, many people fail to see that I have always said the refugees need to be checked and only those who are actually in need should be allowed to stay, which is the way it actually works. Kadagar posted the rejection rates and failed to see that Germany only allows 41% to stay (not counting appeals and court processes) while in Sweden it is more than 70%. That doesn't mean that we do not sometimes allow the wrong people to stay, but I'd hazard a guess that in Germany there are fewer "wrong" ones than in Sweden, which is another reason the never-ending Sweden-comparison just doesn't work. I've also criticized the lack of will on the part of politicians to actually apply the laws or adjust them to long-known exploits. And I still am told that I have some guilt complex as though people just don't read the parts of what I say that make their attacks pointless. Admittedly I've misread posts myself, but it seems like every week some people are reset and come with the same arguments again. What I argue against is the kind of argument that goes "I want none of these brown people here!" and that said, I await Kadagar's links, perhaps he just had problems communicating his multicultural spirit lately, in which case I may be open for a big virtual hug.

[Kadagar_AV]

Since I do not remember a single instance of you saying that

I dunno either...

I for a FACT know that I have written it on several occasions during the 12 years, it is a main staple of my view and I remember some conversations where it was used.

But searching your database, you are right, I can't find it.

However, this would be the first time I had hallucinations or other mental injuries, so I am not entirely sure your database is correct. But yes, I get why you wrote that, but no... I 100% know it has been written before.


EDIT: A search in your database still show no results on user Kadagar_AV with the search term 10% and search all posts even after I once again wrote it just some posts ago, so yeah...

I think the problem is on your side, tech admin. I can't even find the post I just made using the sites search engine.

[Beskar]

I for a FACT know that I have written it on several occasions during the 12 years, it is a main staple of my view and I remember some conversations where it was used...

It was in this post, mid-way down.

Edit: I might have jumped gun, I thought you wasn't sure where you posted it. Just returned from work.