IMMIGRATION thread

[Fragony]

Ah, come on. This is like saying you can't learn from a chess game because the pieces were in different positions.

Rome's situation and Rome's relation with the goths is very complex it just cannot be compared to the present, it was a very long proces, not a wave.

[Husar]

http://conservativepost.com/and-so-i...lice-pictures/

This might come as a shock to people with reading issues, but I wouldn't care much if police shot them on the spot.
They identify themselves as combatants of a hostile state, what can they expect?
Unfortunately that level of actually fighting criminals is a bit lacking lately, instead we just spy on everyone and increase sentences for copying a CD because think of the poor multinational megacorporations.

[Kadagar_AV]

Irrelevant. You chose to refer to people based on their pigmentation levels ('black' and 'white') rather than their background - i.e. culture and nationality (and just now: biological ethnicity). This more or less implies that their pigmentation level (or their biology in general) is a problem in itself; as if one could not expect people with this and that pigmentation level to behave other than so and so.

Look at it this way: if you could only chose between two words to describe Hitler, 'white guy' and 'Nazi', which one would you chose?

Look at it this way... you automatically scream "RACISM" when someone questions or argues against mass immigration from the Middle east and Africa.

You have no arguments as to why it would be a GOOD idea to let them in, oh no. You just scream "BLOODY MURDERER" at anyone awake enough to understand Europe has dire problems.

[Removed Farmyard Animals]

[Gilrandir]

History does repeat itself if nobody learns from past mistakes.

They say history repeats itself twice - once as a tragedy and the second time as a farce. Which one are we witnessing now?

As far as the refugees are concerned:

Ukrainian media are almost indifferent (or should I say unbiased?) to the problem just reporting of the waves of immigrants and the inability of Europe (mostly Hungary) to cope with the deluge.

However, yesterday I saw an interview with a Ukrainian woman, who lives in Vienna and claims to have lived in the Middle East for five years and to know the local dialect of Arabic well. She was to take a train from Vienna to somewhere and came to the railway station. She was shocked not so much by the numbers of the refugees but by their behavior. They were doing "what the nature demanded from them" never minding the on-lookers, not an uncommon sight was a man beating his woman, some man tried to snatch her suitcase from her, others shouted obscenities after her. When she boarded the train, only four other passengers on her car were locals others being refugees. While the trip lasted she listened to them discussing whether it would be fine to rob her (and perhaps rape her) since she was dressed inappropriately, and was infidel anyway so it wouldn't really be too bad. At some moment there was an announcement that the train was not to go any further and she (as well as four other Austrians) had a trouble leaving the car.

[Viking]

^ what he says

@ Swordmaster

You can't learn from history, the conditions in what it took place can't jusf be slapped upon wildly different circumstances.

Certain mechanisms have a tendency of repeating, so yes; it is possible to learn from history - it's just that it's a bad bet to look for an exact repeat of a scenario.

You have no arguments as to why it would be a GOOD idea to let them in, oh no. You just scream "BLOODY MURDERER" at anyone awake enough to understand Europe has dire problems.

I've most recently argued against mass-immigration from those very areas. You are missing the point completely.

You seem think that in order to to accuse someone who opposes immigration of racism, you have to be supportive of immigration yourself - which is rather obviously nonsense.

[Fragony]

Certain mechanisms have a tendency of repeating, so yes; it is possible to learn from history - it's just that it's a bad bet to look for an exact repeat of a scenario.

That's like altering the sum to reach an outcome. This is without prescedent, in the Roman times there were major shifts of people moving and settling, but that took centuries, I am sure you can find a timelapse somewhere,.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Out of all the challenges Europe has ever faced, this is the one that ends its hegemony?

You people made great strides to open borders and reduce arms in an effort towards inter-European peace and now you are all tripping over how to treat these long distance migrants?

You have no duty to these people. Every one of you lot that called US/UK policy in the region callous when these same countries we destabilized sent the US into recession in the 1970s as soon as they realized they could embargo enough oil to fuck with us.

[Montmorency]

Out of all the challenges Europe has ever faced, this is the one that ends its hegemony?

To be technical, European hegemony had already ended by the conclusion of WW2.

[AE Bravo]

The US screwed you lot by displacing these people in the first place. They're okay with taking them in and getting them to adapt, EU is just too white.

[Husar]

Every one of you lot that called US/UK policy in the region callous when these same countries we destabilized sent the US into recession in the 1970s as soon as they realized they could embargo enough oil to fuck with us.

If this is a sentence I can't find it.

The US screwed you lot by displacing these people in the first place. They're okay with taking them in and getting them to adapt, EU is just too white.

How many thousands have they taken in the US?
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/11/9309973/syrian-refugees-us

Let's hope they won't take more or ACIN may start as many threads as Kadagar.
But don't worry, once they have turned Europe into a desert kaliphate, the US will be next.

[AE Bravo]

I've never seen a green caliphate before, I bet it would be less angry. I blame the heat.

[Montmorency]

I guess after the next war, there will be conspiracy theories of a Moon Caliphate.

(Hitler relocates to Mars.)

[Kadagar_AV]

Certain mechanisms have a tendency of repeating, so yes; it is possible to learn from history - it's just that it's a bad bet to look for an exact repeat of a scenario.




I've most recently argued against mass-immigration from those very areas. You are missing the point completely.

You seem think that in order to to accuse someone who opposes immigration of racism, you have to be supportive of immigration yourself - which is rather obviously nonsense.

What exactly is racism to you?

I vehemently dislike having Arabs, Africans and Gypsies around me, in the place where I live.

It does not mean I don't treat every person I meet with respect, it does not mean I don't do my best to integrate them to my society, it does not mean I am not willing to help them create better living conditions for themselves in their home states...

But see, I dislike having Gypsies around me, not Romanians or Bulgarians, as an example. And Gypsies come from Romania and Bulgaria.

I have several Romanian and Bulgarian friends, but yes, one of the ethnic cultures in Romania and Bulgaria I don't like.


And why? Because Gypsies is a pure parasitic culture that is straight out said EVIL to the people following it, and generally negative on the society they dwell in.

Is that racist?

I find it problematic that we to Sweden import people from cultures with a long history of inbreeding and "quantity above quality" so to say when it comes to creating a second generation...

Is that because I am racist, or because I am SO bored with teaching math to these stupid people, all the while seeing the population and the politicians running around with their arms in the air wondering why the school results are sinking like a stone.

*not teaching anymore, I should add, because I left teaching for this exact reason. I didn't become a teacher to deal with problems like this, I would honestly say around 30% of my work time was dealing with immigration problems (in various ways), I joined politics instead of teaching to get to the root with the problem*

Heck, that 10 year old girl I had, who was about to have her vagina mutilated in Africa, with me unable to stop it even though calling the social service, police, and so on still haunts me.

I have time and time again on these boards said that I believe the world would be a better place if around 10% of the population in every country was foreign - spread from all over the world.

However, that is NOT what we are seeing.

Am I racist?

Maybe, I don't know...

I think the human race evolved, and then split up because of various reasons. We are still the same RACE though - humans.

With that said, I also believe that all dogs are dogs... But let us remember that we still have Berner Blanc Suisse and Chihuahuas, and those have evolved on a time period WAY shorter than humanitys history.

My point is that when I decided to get a dog, well, guess my pick.

And it's not that I am a racist that HATE other dog breeds. I think German Shepherds are also cool, Border Collies are intelligenter than my dogs breed, and Poodles can do circus numbers to make you laugh all day...


With that said however, I wouldn't ever get a Chihuahua, because they are less intelligent, they take WAY more training before they stop pooping indoors, and they bark at the mailman even though he is just doing his job.

[a completely inoffensive name]

If this is a sentence I can't find it.

It's just a massive run on sentence. Let me elaborate what I am trying to say.

Everyone who called US led policy in the Middle East 'callous' is naive. Those who blame all the ills of the middle east on the US are naive. Many of the neighboring arab countries are playing Europe as naive. How many refugees has Saudi Arabia taken? Egypt? Algeria? These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

The whole area is full of regimes that from the 1950s are nothing but opportunistic. Once they felt they could, they tried to destroy Israel, once they felt they could, they embargo'd oil, once they felt they could, they promoted Islamic terrorism and funded radical Islamic thoughts to undermine Western influence. Now many of these same countries feel that they can get away with refusing to take in Syrians because they know EU policies and morals will force Europe to take in everyone who tries to come in. They promote this as well, as there is no reason why many of these refugees cannot simply find safe refuge in the first EU countries they come across (typically Greece and Hungary). Instead it is obvious they have fed a message of "Get to Germany or bust".

You are getting played and it is becoming more and more obvious by the minute. Why are the vast majority of refugees men other than to exploit the German legal system that allows declared refugees the right to bring their families along with them?

My point of view is that the Syrian civil war is solely a middle east problem that should be resolved by the middle east community and instead it is being guilt tripped onto Europe. The sad thing is that many Europeans are going along with the guilt trip.

And if you think I'm some monster or ignoramous because of this oh well. My hope is for Europe to remain the bastion of social democracy that I can point to in order to bring America up to European standards (e.g. health care). I don't like seeing Sweden's right wing party jump from 2% to 25% of the vote and I don't like seeing UKIP getting media attention in the UK. The refugee situation is only feeding these groups more and more.

[Montmorency]

These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, I suppose if I'm living through the fall of Rome I should become a bishop - a Roman bishop riding a Challenger II Tank.

This is going to go one of two ways - Europe degrades under the weight of the incomers and continues its slow collapse or it pulls together at the last moment and the EU emerges as a new state - one means decades of gradually deteriorating living standards and the painful collapse of our civilisation - the other means fire and blood and death.

If the EU does become a real country we need to move the Capital to somewhere nicer than Brussels - and more central so that the South and East gets screwed less.



Rome is quite central, and it has a lovely climate...

Now...

Who can we make Emperor?

[Kadagar_AV]

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

Montmorency, can you do me a personal favour?

Look at the number of refugees the Gulf States (Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) accept.

Then bear in mind that Saudi Arabia alone, has SUPER QUALITY TENTS that can host 3 million people, standing unused, as they only use them one time a year for religious reasons...

Bear in mind that Saudi Arabia has recently went out with THEIR support of the refugees, to build 200 mosques in Germany..

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_8115492.html

Let's remember that these are nations culturally WAY more close than ours.





What is your analysis of this?

And yes, I ask you for a personal favour, only thing I give you in return is that you have +1.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

Algeria is actually a bit farther from Syria than germany, but off the top of my head it is a member of OPEC and does somewhat well for itself. I remember reading somewhere that they have already taken in 25,000-30,000 people.

I didn't know that about Egypt actually. Then again, I'm not surprised since the UK never bothered to even adopt Schengen. My point is that while Egypt has taken in ~150,000 refugees (0.17% of the Egyptian population), why is Germany taking 800,000 (0.98% of Germany's population)? Also, while the UK has not directly accepted refugees it has sent over one billion pounds in aid to Syria, which is more than almost any other country.

According to Amnesty International, "The six Gulf countries - Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain - have offered zero resettlement places to Syrian refugees."

If these countries were to participate in their fair share of refugees, they could absorb over two million refugees.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Welp, it finally happened. Kad and I practically made the same post.

No offense Kad, but I'm going to bow out and read some more on this issue. I just want to make sure I really, really​ understand what's happened before I commit to this position.

[Montmorency]

Kad, check earlier in the thread for a discussion of the matter between Viking and myself.

The Gulf states, apart from any evil conspiracy to make the decadent West collapse in on itself, are quite aware of the political risks to themselves of taking in so many refugees.

Regardless of all that, sure, it would be nice if EU states at least publicly demanded major concessions from the Gulf states for the trouble.

[Pannonian]

Kad, check earlier in the thread for a discussion of the matter between Viking and myself.

The Gulf states, apart from any evil conspiracy to make the decadent West collapse in on itself, are quite aware of the political risks to themselves of taking in so many refugees.

Regardless of all that, sure, it would be nice if EU states at least publicly demanded major concessions from the Gulf states for the trouble.

And prepare to go through with our threats of dumping the refugees back in Syria if they break their word. Which they will, so we might as well prepare for the latter now. If the Syrians have nowhere else to go other than into fellow Arab states, then the latter will collapse. Whatever happens, we should be weaning ourselves off from middle eastern oil. Even Russia is a more reliable energy supplier, being as they are closer to our mindset.

[Montmorency]

nd prepare to go through with our threats of dumping the refugees back in Syria if they break their word.

Er, no. That would not immediately impact the peninsula, but it would outrage and seriously threaten Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, and even Iran. In fact, that's practically a dream for the Saudis.

[Kadagar_AV]

Welp, it finally happened. Kad and I practically made the same post.

No offense Kad, but I'm going to bow out and read some more on this issue. I just want to make sure I really, really​ understand what's happened before I commit to this position.

What happened is that you realised that I wasn't the racist idiot many think, mate ;)

The more you read up the happier I will be :)

Montmorency, so +1 then.

[Kadagar_AV]

Monty, On a second note... No...

I want your ANALYSIS of my specific question for you to get a +1...

I mean, I actually want you to share what you think. Of my specific point and view at large.

Sorry if I missed stuff, but for a +1 you could at least go to the bottom of your heart on this :)

[AE Bravo]

Dump the refugees on Lebanon, Israel, and ESPECIALLY the Islamic Republic of LOLran. Saudi Arabia too.

[Pannonian]

Er, no. That would not immediately impact the peninsula, but it would outrage and seriously threaten Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, and even Iran. In fact, that's practically a dream for the Saudis.

Let them deal with the problem. They claim to have a common culture and identity.

[Montmorency]

Monty, On a second note... No...

I want your ANALYSIS of my specific question for you to get a +1...

I mean, I actually want you to share what you think. Of my specific point and view at large.

Sorry if I missed stuff, but for a +1 you could at least go to the bottom of your heart on this :)

Are you asking something about refugee distributions, or the offer to build mosques? I figure it's the latter.

My analysis.

[Kadagar_AV]

Are you asking something about refugee distributions, or the offer to build mosques? I figure it's the latter.

My analysis.

For a +1 you still need to make it in your own words, written... *sorry, no offence*

[Montmorency]

My analysis is that Saudi offers to construct mosques in Germany as aid in proportion to the number of Syrians taken in is similar to dudebro offers to donate money to breast cancer organizations in proportion to the number of young women whose breasts they get to slobber on.

Now begone.

[Kadagar_AV]

My analysis is that Saudi offers to construct mosques in Germany as aid in proportion to the number of Syrians taken in is similar to dudebro offers to donate money to breast cancer organizations in proportion to the number of young women whose breasts they get to slobber on.

Now begone.

Wow... You have NO political thoughts, no religious thoughts?

EDIT: How many of the 11/9 attackers were from Saudi Arabia again?

Sorry, but I was asking for his thoughts about it, and analysis... Not for his repetition of what I said.