IMMIGRATION thread

[Montmorency]

You have NO political thoughts, no religious thoughts?

I believe in Angela Merkel. Everything else is negotiable.

[Kadagar_AV]

I believe in Angela Merkel. Everything else is negotiable.

Yeah, you are STILL playing the politician game...

What are your honest thoughts?

[Husar]

I have time and time again on these boards said that I believe the world would be a better place if around 10% of the population in every country was foreign - spread from all over the world.

Since I do not remember a single instance of you saying that, how about you link me to some? Let's say three instances minimum and you get a +1 if you link me five.

It's just a massive run on sentence. Let me elaborate what I am trying to say.

Everyone who called US led policy in the Middle East 'callous' is naive. Those who blame all the ills of the middle east on the US are naive. Many of the neighboring arab countries are playing Europe as naive. How many refugees has Saudi Arabia taken? Egypt? Algeria? These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

The whole area is full of regimes that from the 1950s are nothing but opportunistic. Once they felt they could, they tried to destroy Israel, once they felt they could, they embargo'd oil, once they felt they could, they promoted Islamic terrorism and funded radical Islamic thoughts to undermine Western influence. Now many of these same countries feel that they can get away with refusing to take in Syrians because they know EU policies and morals will force Europe to take in everyone who tries to come in. They promote this as well, as there is no reason why many of these refugees cannot simply find safe refuge in the first EU countries they come across (typically Greece and Hungary). Instead it is obvious they have fed a message of "Get to Germany or bust".

You are getting played and it is becoming more and more obvious by the minute. Why are the vast majority of refugees men other than to exploit the German legal system that allows declared refugees the right to bring their families along with them?

My point of view is that the Syrian civil war is solely a middle east problem that should be resolved by the middle east community and instead it is being guilt tripped onto Europe. The sad thing is that many Europeans are going along with the guilt trip.

And if you think I'm some monster or ignoramous because of this oh well. My hope is for Europe to remain the bastion of social democracy that I can point to in order to bring America up to European standards (e.g. health care). I don't like seeing Sweden's right wing party jump from 2% to 25% of the vote and I don't like seeing UKIP getting media attention in the UK. The refugee situation is only feeding these groups more and more.

Thank you for this reply. It actually made me think a bit and you may have a point. The obvious sarcastic reply is "but the Saudis are our friends" and the truth behind it is that we helped these people stay in power, which IIRC was among the things I criticized about our handling of the region. And by our I do not just mean the US but also Europe. If it hadn't been for all the oil money and the weapon deliveries, these countries might look and behave quite different today, but that's a what-if.

As for my position on refugees, many people fail to see that I have always said the refugees need to be checked and only those who are actually in need should be allowed to stay, which is the way it actually works. Kadagar posted the rejection rates and failed to see that Germany only allows 41% to stay (not counting appeals and court processes) while in Sweden it is more than 70%. That doesn't mean that we do not sometimes allow the wrong people to stay, but I'd hazard a guess that in Germany there are fewer "wrong" ones than in Sweden, which is another reason the never-ending Sweden-comparison just doesn't work. I've also criticized the lack of will on the part of politicians to actually apply the laws or adjust them to long-known exploits. And I still am told that I have some guilt complex as though people just don't read the parts of what I say that make their attacks pointless. Admittedly I've misread posts myself, but it seems like every week some people are reset and come with the same arguments again. What I argue against is the kind of argument that goes "I want none of these brown people here!" and that said, I await Kadagar's links, perhaps he just had problems communicating his multicultural spirit lately, in which case I may be open for a big virtual hug.

[Kadagar_AV]

Since I do not remember a single instance of you saying that

I dunno either...

I for a FACT know that I have written it on several occasions during the 12 years, it is a main staple of my view and I remember some conversations where it was used.

But searching your database, you are right, I can't find it.

However, this would be the first time I had hallucinations or other mental injuries, so I am not entirely sure your database is correct. But yes, I get why you wrote that, but no... I 100% know it has been written before.


EDIT: A search in your database still show no results on user Kadagar_AV with the search term 10% and search all posts even after I once again wrote it just some posts ago, so yeah...

I think the problem is on your side, tech admin. I can't even find the post I just made using the sites search engine.

[Gilrandir]

Then bear in mind that Saudi Arabia alone, has SUPER QUALITY TENTS that can host 3 million people, standing unused, as they only use them one time a year for religious reasons...

C'mon! They can't even handle 1000 times fewer crowd:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34231620

[Fragony]

Pic http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/10...-any-refugees/

closer look http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/08...-of-tents.html

[Beskar]

I for a FACT know that I have written it on several occasions during the 12 years, it is a main staple of my view and I remember some conversations where it was used...

It was in this post, mid-way down.

Edit: I might have jumped gun, I thought you wasn't sure where you posted it. Just returned from work.

[Viking]

What exactly is racism to you?

Being prejudiced based on biology. If you don't want to let people with IQ less than a certain threshold into the country; then you should give applicants IQ tests, not look at their pigmentation levels (and if you are really worried about IQ levels, then you should also test ethnic Swedes and expel those with low scores).

With that said however, I wouldn't ever get a Chihuahua, because they are less intelligent, they take WAY more training before they stop pooping indoors, and they bark at the mailman even though he is just doing his job.

But then you would have to prove it. Given that our knowledge of human biology is at a premature stage, this likely not possible for the moment. All kinds of factors can influence how people end up - whether things like aggressiveness or intelligence. Nutrition could influence, education could influence; and effects could accumulate over generations. Until we can provide decent estimates on how people are going to behave solely from DNA, the case for linking behaviour with biological ethnicity will be weak, because the possible contributing factors will be hard to separate.

If two populations largely live segregated, then the non-biological factors can vary a lot between the two populations. If they do not live segregated, then they would likely interbreed and soon there would no longer exist two separate populations to study. So that's why you want to understand the DNA if you want to get to the bottom of it.

[Fragony]

Wouldn't three generations getting the same chances eliminate most considerations if you put it like that? Not trying to be an ass but people from some regions do really badly, why dismiss what should be a consideration. I will just admit that I am a racist, I believe there are differences, good or bad. If you get dropped in the middle of Australia, you die. Aboriginals wont, they won't be depleted in a few hours. You would probably do better at getting a master's degree though.

[Kadagar_AV]

Being prejudiced based on biology. If you don't want to let people with IQ less than a certain threshold into the country; then you should give applicants IQ tests, not look at their pigmentation levels (and if you are really worried about IQ levels, then you should also test ethnic Swedes and expel those with low scores).



But then you would have to prove it. Given that our knowledge of human biology is at a premature stage, this likely not possible for the moment. All kinds of factors can influence how people end up - whether things like aggressiveness or intelligence. Nutrition could influence, education could influence; and effects could accumulate over generations. Until we can provide decent estimates on how people are going to behave solely from DNA, the case for linking behaviour with biological ethnicity will be weak, because the possible contributing factors will be hard to separate.

If two populations largely live segregated, then the non-biological factors can vary a lot between the two populations. If they do not live segregated, then they would likely interbreed and soon there would no longer exist two separate populations to study. So that's why you want to understand the DNA if you want to get to the bottom of it.

Oh my...

Sorry mate, that still sounds brainwashed, and have no resemblance to facts.

First of all, I am not - to take an example, saying everyone in Japan is intelligent. What I am saying is that if we take in loads of people from Japan to - say - Sweden, school results are likely to go up.

That is not even prejudice, it's fact. Hey, I even heard that in the USA, students are told to "keep down" their asianess if they want to get into uni, as there are so many asians there and the unis try to run race-programs to make society more "equal" for the blacks.

Not that I would ever get why it's better to have a less qualified black doctor, than a more qualified asian one. But oooooooh the logical missteps we have to take to be good persons in this new multicultural world.


How the HELL can you from anything I have written drawn the conclusion that I would in any way support expelling Swedes below a certain IQ score? Are you on drugs? That sounds like one of the most dystopian fantasies I have ever heard, and you try to put that thought on me?

That's insulting, and I look forward to you saying "I am sorry".



AND LOL, do you actually live in a world, where if you wanted a guard dog, you would not be able to see any difference between dog breeds, as DNA can't prove who would be the most adequate?




Heck, I don't even HAVE to get into biological reasons as to why I don't want Arabs and Africans around me, except on vacation.



It is simply because since we started letting them in, in massive ways, we have riots, attacks against the police, women are no longer safe, librarians need security guards, the free word is threatened by religious fantasies, our ambulance need police escort to go into the areas where the darker skinned people dwell...



And this is in a country where they get several hundred dollars, or several hundred euros, a month, from the state - for free.

While also having full access to the whole wellfare society with medicine, pensions, child care, education....

Yeah, education.... Don't get me STARTED on the effects having African instead of Swedish kids have on the education...




DAMN MAN, have you taught African kids much? I have, and it's an absolute HORROR.

I remember this guy - 12 years old - who I actually had to go down to the level of:

HERE are 2 (two) blocks.

THIS is 1 (one) block.

How many ONE blocks, can you fit into this TWO block opening here.



Between him, the Arab with weak Swedish, and the blind kid... There sure as HELL was not much time over for the other 27 kids in the classroom. YEY for living in a nation where anyone not agreeing to "every humans equal value" is a rotten racist.


It's still a success story though, as this kid 2 years later raped a girl in the school, and was forced out... So YEY, success, the class got rid of him. The girl is still traumatized for life, though. Of course.

[Kadagar_AV]

I would like to clarify one thing...

When I left teaching, the best student I had had was from Ethiopia.

My personal biggest success was this former Yugoslavian kid, who went from an ADHD-diagnose and criminality to, just this month, getting into university.

I personally just think I was the first teacher who asked him "is that the best you can do" when he handed stuff in, instead of taking it and grading it. But whatever, his dad sent me a big flower bouquet to celebrate. So I must have had some impact.

I have done my UTTERMOST to try to stop a female mutilation, only to be let down by the more accepting society around me. I actually thought about going over to the fathers house with a baseball bat, even.

But then, I decided it's better join politics and get to the root of the problems, than it is to put myself in jail.


Scream BLOODY RACIST all you want, I still won't see it, and the people who's life I touched, in my career of:

1. Educating in a resort where people come from all over the world.

2. Educating is schools with diverse cultures.

... Would all laugh if I was called racist.

YOU HAVE TO be able to separate how I act in my personal life, from what conclusions I draw from my life and the political MUCH larger processes at work.



A racist is for me, at least, someone who wouldn't offer their best shirt when a black guy is wounded...


That's not me, I am the guy saying schools results will continue to sink, and more girls will be raped, if we continue this madness we do in Sweden.

[Husar]

YOU HAVE TO be able to separate how I act in my personal life, from what conclusions I draw from my life and the political MUCH larger processes at work.

So you claim schizophrenia?

[Kadagar_AV]

So you claim schizophrenia?

Nope, but I am slightly worried about your reading comprehension.

[Montmorency]

Schizodoxy, actually. We've been over this.

[Kadagar_AV]

Schizodoxy, actually. We've been over this.

Yes, and it still isn't a word.

[Montmorency]

Behold Kadagar's unimpeachable authority on the compositionality of words.

[Kadagar_AV]

Behold Kadagar's unimpeachable authority on the compositionality of words.

Don't read me wrong...

I get that you LOVE advanced words, but with that said, when you start to make them up from your own head, you could at least offer an explanation.

That would be very kwerkintishy of you :)

*another word for polite, I just made it up, it means "when someone asks someone to use English more suitable for a larger audiance than their own mind"*

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Behold Kadagar's unimpeachable authority on the compositionality of words.

Well that wasn't a word.

Defy my Latanatis, I dare thou!

[Husar]

Nope, but I am slightly worried about your reading comprehension.

Were you not saying that you do not want these children in Sweden but you smiled at them and helped them as best as you could?
So you contribute to the multicultural society but when you go home you think it is a bad thing?

To me that sounds slightly schizophrenic. Or maybe you are just too afraid to let people outside the internet know what you really think, but that doesn't quite mix with your claim that you are always 100% honest and can't lie.

[Kadagar_AV]

Were you not saying that you do not want these children in Sweden but you smiled at them and helped them as best as you could?
So you contribute to the multicultural society but when you go home you think it is a bad thing?

To me that sounds slightly schizophrenic. Or maybe you are just too afraid to let people outside the internet know what you really think, but that doesn't quite mix with your claim that you are always 100% honest and can't lie.

Ah, I see where you got it wrong.



Can you tell the difference between:

* Doing your damned best to make something work, eventhough you at large are against it?

and

* Mental disorder.


EDIT: Also, that you have to DO your damned bestestest to make it even fictionally work - is a reason in and of itself as to why you would get the opinions you do?





People outside of the internet have known my exact position on this since 1994. I have never shied away from a discussion once.

Except with my grandparents, out of respect. They lived in a world where "refugees" were blonde cute little WWII escapees, not in a world where refugees are black/arabic Islamist men, by large. And as they were more bothered with things like cancer and shit, I just did my best for them and shut up :)

[Montmorency]

Defy my Latanatis, I dare thou!

Schizo = Split

Phren = Mind

Schizophrenia = Split Mind


Orthos = Straight, Correct

Doxa = Opinion

Orthodoxy = Correct Opinion


Schizodoxy = Split Opinion

Greek > Latin

[Husar]

Ah, I see where you got it wrong.



Can you tell the difference between:

* Doing your damned best to make something work, eventhough you at large are against it?

and

* Mental disorder.

If

you

can

explain

the

difference

between

:

*referring to a mental disorder

to make a point


and


*actually meaning a mental disorder


Or maybe just why you would contribute to a system that you think makes your country worse? Why try your best to make it work if you believe it can never work?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Were you not saying that you do not want these children in Sweden but you smiled at them and helped them as best as you could?
So you contribute to the multicultural society but when you go home you think it is a bad thing?

To me that sounds slightly schizophrenic. Or maybe you are just too afraid to let people outside the internet know what you really think, but that doesn't quite mix with your claim that you are always 100% honest and can't lie.

Or maybe he's actually a nice guy underneath it all?

Perhaps Kadagar has no problem with one traumatised African but takes exception to 1,000 at once?

There's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance, to be sure, but it's not unreasonable to see individuals as different to groups - one screwed up foreigner isn't likely to harm your country but thousands might - and currently are across much of Europe.

[Husar]

Or maybe he's actually a nice guy underneath it all?

Perhaps Kadagar has no problem with one traumatised African but takes exception to 1,000 at once?

There's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance, to be sure, but it's not unreasonable to see individuals as different to groups - one screwed up foreigner isn't likely to harm your country but thousands might - and currently are across much of Europe.

But each of those 1000 is just one guy to his respective teacher, Kadagar claims to think in terms of the larger political picture, then surely he would be aware of it and know that he is contributing to the system at large? It's a bit like saying that your vote in a democracy has no impact and therefore it does not matter who you vote for.

[Kadagar_AV]

I actually went to see the medicine because of the cognitive dissonance...

They thought Aspergers at first, but then they realised I was just very intelligent and honest.


Individuals are individuals, that's how it is. However cultural trends, world wide politics and economics, religions... That's something else. I can love my niece and will help her to be an awesome skier eventhough her dad is Arab.

I would have prefered if my niece had made a better choice than him, sure. But now it's family, and I will do my best to make it work.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you are accusing me of being brain damaged, sick, or what?





EDIT: And again, I am completely open.

When I visited my niece last I had a beanie with my political logo on it - the only political party out of 8 sitting saying we should lower immigration. So it's not like not everyone know EXACTLY where i stand, however, that has nothing with me inviting her husband out for tea (as he don't drink), nor does it mean I wont teach this kid to ski daaaaaaaaamn better than her class mates before their annual school ski trip.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But each of those 1000 is just one guy to his respective teacher, Kadagar claims to think in terms of the larger political picture, then surely he would be aware of it and know that he is contributing to the system at large? It's a bit like saying that your vote in a democracy has no impact and therefore it does not matter who you vote for.

Right, and every guy in IS is someone's son.

There are people, individuals, and there are communities.

Are Arabs bad? Well, I had to live with a Syrian Arab and he was pretty horrific, when the university finally three him out of the house they couldn't rent out his room until they'd had pest control in and done a deep clean. He used to have his friends round, I think some of them were British-Arabs because they habitually spoke English together.

They were all terrible people.

On the other hand there are some lovely Arab academics at the university.

[Husar]

That's something else. I can love my niece and will help her to be an awesome skier eventhough her dad is Arab.

I would have prefered if my niece had made a better choice than him, sure.

See? This is another problem, there are so many things about Sweden that I do not know, for example that children can choose their father there. Or maybe it's just my reading comprehension?

[Kadagar_AV]

META note:

How come a discussion about immigration in Europe is turning into a "Quick everyone, let's blame anyone against it on being mental".




So Germany just decided to make a 180 degree turn and stop the damn idiocy they were at.... They even sidestep EU-rules of free travel just to CLOSE OF THEIR DAMN BORDERS.


My question for Husar:


* Did you do it because you were afraid the beer festival might have been disturbed?

* Or did you do it because you realised that the policy you only some days ago were OH SO PROUD OF proved to be absolutely idiotic?

[Kadagar_AV]

See? This is another problem, there are so many things about Sweden that I do not know, for example that children can choose their father there. Or maybe it's just my reading comprehension?

Yes, your reading comprehension again... A child is in my world a direct result of the father, and the mother.

Seriously, what is your point?

[Kadagar_AV]

Schizo = Split

Phren = Mind

Schizophrenia = Split Mind


Orthos = Straight, Correct

Doxa = Opinion

Orthodoxy = Correct Opinion


Schizodoxy = Split Opinion

Greek > Latin

I speak greek to my horse.


And if you for some stupid reason start using greek instead of English or the latin roots the medical world is built upon, you might at the VERY least give a heads up.

Again, stop being so kwerkintish.

















*I am SO proud of the word I just made up, it has been proved useful twice already, in this thread alone!!*