Something that has been on my mind for a long time now, is that while we keep discussing cultural matters for the most part, there is also the "they just want our money"-angle, where even the counter-argument often goes to "overall, immigrants pay more taxes than they get, and we all profit from them monetarily".
But I find this angle very interesting from other perspectives, for example the one where they are blamed for wanting to have a better life with more money or better job opportunities.
On the one hand this argument that they will take something away from us if they come seems to counter the typical capitalist argument that one person gaining wealth does not mean the wealth of another decreases. Even if you argue that they will get government money from our taxes, they WILL spend it on consumerist stuff that makes our companies earn more money and provide more jobs, no? I am aware that it's more complicated than that, but I'm trying to get at the basic assumption, is wealth relative or can we all get wealthier or is capitalism a lie after all? What do you believe?
On the other hand it seems as though people are in this sense just blaming them for having the same greed we do, if you say they just come here for the good jobs, are you saying that wanting a good job is a bad thing? I mean the argument usually implies that they have a bad character because they want to be wealthier. Who here does not want to be wealthier? Have you ever felt bad about getting job over another candidate? Are you content if you get a C at school while everybody else gets As and Bs? I can see this as some sort of realpolitik argument that if we can get ahead by locking them out, we should, but then the implication that they have bad character for opposing this attempt is hypocrisy because they just do the same thing we do, they just have a far less wealthy starting position at the beginning of the game. Which also seems a typical capitalist tactic, to blame all the problems on the poor, which is a good way to make the middle class accept that the rich slowly strip them of their money as well.
And a linky for reference: http://www.theguardian.com/business/...it-switzerland
It's "funny" how the poor are blamed for taking all the things away from the middle class when the rich get more and more of all our stuff every day.
And I think the Middle Class is complicit in this, it does not criticize the rich because its members hope to be rich themselves one day, it would be like criticizing their idols. So they/we pick on the poor instead because we don't want to be like them anyway and they are convenient targets. As we say in Germany "wenn zwei sich streiten, freut sich der dritte", roughly translated: "when two people fight, the third is happy".
Last edited by Husar; 09-20-2015 at 19:38.
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It is simply a fact that virtually-all refugees to the First World are also economic migrants.Context is key. If they claim to be refugees, but wanting a good job is the real reason for migrating, then that's a status they shouldn't have.
This shouldn't be difficult to grasp: 'Well, my home country is screwed and I cannot tolerate staying here any longer - I might even get killed! Where can I go to that is both safe and will provide good opportunities for myself and my children/family?'
Whether or not you think that makes the situation more acceptable is irrelevant, as that is the basic logic motivating all refugees traveling long distances to prosperous European countries.
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Irrelevant to the point. It was implicitly understood in what I wrote that an immediate threat to their life is not among the reasons for migrating.
They aren't refugees, but work migrants. Work migrants can be returned if they don't have any work. Refugees can't.
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I don't see how that's relevant to my point. Maybe we're hung up over what constitutes or qualifies as a refugee?Irrelevant to the point. It was implicitly understood in what I wrote that an immediate threat to their life is not among the reasons for migrating.
They are economic migrants, but they also qualify as refugees, and that they are economic migrants does not cancel out their refugee status. That's what I'm saying, in effect.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
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There are perfectly viable ways, there are European ambasades that have to take any aplication into consideration. They can be helped from there should it be needed. Most real refugees are just glad they are safe though, Turkey has been really generous to those who are really in need and can't afford Nikes and iPhones.
That's complete rubbish, if they flee from a war or another danger, then they are usually refugees.
http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c125.htmlOriginally Posted by UNHCR
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
It is not a bad thing per se, it is just wrong to demand it in the way they do. I mean more qualified and educated people from other countries may have to prove they want a job in Gemany and are qualified enough to get one, spend money and time getting a permit or a visa or both and may be denied either and stay where they were still wishing for a job in Germany.
The refugees/immigrants' modus operandi is dropping with their numerous family and relatives plop on Hauptbahnhof (or what it's called in Munich) and only then starting to prove anything. Moreover, they behave as if the country which they chose to afflict is obliged to feed them, shelter them, provide them with work and their kids with education; and they are much exasperated if they don't see the tables laid for them and money distributed at will in whatever place they might choose to grace with their presence.
If it were about fleeing from war, the first safe place (say, in Turkey or Greece) would suffice. So those who come to Europe's heartlands are immigrants, not refugees.
Just think: the Syrian conflict has been in evidence for 4 odd years and now it is not much hotter than, say, 2 or 3 years ago. Why are we witnessing the deluge right now, at this very moment?
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