IMMIGRATION thread

[AE Bravo]

People only fear what they do not understand.

I'm not sure you understand, you seem to think that "Constitutional Monarchy" is different to democracy. It's not - I live in a democracy which is simultaneously a Constitutional Monarchy and under the Constitution the Monarch's power is absolute - the Saudi King wishes he was as powerful as my Queen who rules by the Grace of God.

Yet, we are a democracy.

different norms. as for the king of saudi arabia, he is the most powerful figure in the country unlike your queen. this is why she visits him and not the other way around.

So, socially maladjusted gang-bangers who are afraid of democracy? Are you sure that's how you want to paint Arabs?

that’s not what i said, but i can see how you in particular would infer this.

Seems to me, there are an AWFUL LOT of what you are calling extreme Islamists in Europea already - if there were so few to start with then I can't see how there would be any left in the ME with all the ones in Europe.

trolling.

When the Gulf States run out of oil everybody will suffer horribly - about rhe only up side would appear to be that with all the oil fields empty they won't be able to set them on fire.

not funny. i don't think you understand how horrible that is, we have family in yemen. but even then, suffer horribly is exaggerating. your just talking.

Syria, Libya, Yemen, Tunisia, Iraq, Iran…

talking about the gulf

So you're so regressive you think that rapists do it for sexual gratification? "Oh, you couldn't get her you had to rape her?”

uhh…. wasn’t being serious dude. the point you initially made about rape is stereotypical rubbish.

In the West a woman's honour is protected by society in general, not by her father or husband - we have immigrants here who kill their daughters for perceived slights that even the most zealous and blindsighted European would consider minor.

so what? do you feel I should defend these immigrants or are muslims regressive monkeys for the rest of their lives…

From what I have read the Koran instructs you to refrain from gambling and intoxicants - which is why Muslims don't drink and why we no longer play Chess with dice.

so what?

I lost interest, from where I'm sitting your argument made no sense - I demonstrated that the original inhabitants of the Alluvial plane were neither Arab nor Semitic, I could dig up something showing the people in Caanan originally spoke a non-Semitic language, but would it matter?

but why should anyone (not just me) take your word for it about anything? who are you to deny sources with your own words like they’re gospel

Joradn is also not a joke, the fact that you think it is speaks volumes.

and what does that mean

All in all cynical and mean-spirited post.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

different norms. as for the king of saudi arabia, he is the most powerful figure in the country unlike your queen. this is why she visits him and not the other way around.

Doesn't the Saudi King have to answer to the Imans or whatever they are? Here the Bishops ultimately answer to the Queen. Legally the Queen makes the law, passes judgement and controls the Church.

Yet we live in a democracy. HM Queen has only visited Saudia Arabia once in 1979.

On the last King's visit to the Queen in Scotland: http://i100.independent.co.uk/articl...ay--eJYX859rsl

So either you're ill-informed or you thought I wouldn't check.

There was also the time the Guards band played the "Imperial March" from Star Wars when his Highness arrived.

that’s not what i said, but i can see how you in particular would infer this.

No, that was in essence what you said, that these people fear democracy, are socially isolated and operate within a "gang culture". You may have meant something else, but that did not come across.

trolling.

You're dodging the point with an ad hominem - you want us to accept that the sorts of nutters we have in Europe are a minority in the Gulf and Levant, but the fact that they keep coming here AND they have created IS says otherwise.

not funny. i don't think you understand how horrible that is, we have family in yemen.

I was being completely literal - I have no faith in the Gulf States' ability to pacify their populations without oil money and about the only unside to that is that they will drain the wells and when it does all kick off we won't have burning wells ruining the climate of the planet for years.

talking about the gulf

Currently the Gulf is relatively quiet due to the aforementioned bribes being paid to the populace with oil money, I can't seem to keep up with your frame of reference though. One minute it's about the whole ME, then just the Gulf.

A good example of torture in the Gulf would be Oman though, although that was a few dcades back now (and the British helped with it).

uhh…. wasn’t being serious dude. the point you initially made about rape is stereotypical rubbish.

Again, "she was asking for it" is a claimpretty common to sexist pigs across the world, not just Arabs. Certainly, though, we hear a lot of it from Arabs and other Muslims here in the UK.

so what? do you feel I should defend these immigrants or are muslims regressive monkeys for the rest of their lives…

On the contrary I expect you to condemn them - I also expected you to condemn rapists but instead you make a joke of it.

so what?

So, if the Koran instructs you to do something, I was under the impression that was not negotiable - because the Koran is the infallible word of God as transmitted through His Prophet.

Correct me if I'm wrong - it's what I learned at school and university.

but why should anyone (not just me) take your word for it about anything? who are you to deny sources with your own words like they’re gospel

Who am I? A PhD candidate studying medieval Christian heresy with a side line the Classics who studied, among others, Alexander's Conquest of the Persian Empire and an amateur interest in Archaeology. I can also, as I said, read a map and a book. Give me a year and I'll write you a paper on all the people in the Levant who aren't really Arabs.

and what does that mean

It means that it's profoundly weird that when looking at Jordan, which is doing better than almost any other country in the region at almost everything, you decide to call it a "joke". You could have said it was an example for the other countries in the region to aspire to.

All in all cynical and mean-spirited post.

Stop excusing the failings of the people in the Middle East, a thousand years ago Babylon had street lighting and what was very nearly a public health service. You are basically characterising your own people as stupid and cowardly, unable or unwilling to realise that they have spent a century or so in a cultural and social backslide.

Reading your posts on this is like reading the posts of an American trying to deny a Public Health service would work in the US.

[AE Bravo]

1979? Look up more recent visits, the difference is the king is head of state (does not answer to clergy) and the queen is good at being admired for uselessness.

No, that was in essence what you said, that these people fear democracy, are socially isolated and operate within a "gang culture". You may have meant something else, but that did not come across.

The people who resort to violence. Obviously.

You're dodging the point with an ad hominem - you want us to accept that the sorts of nutters we have in Europe are a minority in the Gulf and Levant, but the fact that they keep coming here AND they have created IS says otherwise.

They are students of salafism. Your problem is salafism. The poor, oppressed, or uneducated are easy targets.

Again, "she was asking for it" is a claimpretty common to sexist pigs across the world, not just Arabs. Certainly, though, we hear a lot of it from Arabs and other Muslims here in the UK.

They can go to hell then. This is not how I was raised or most people I know were, you can believe what you want.

On the contrary I expect you to condemn them - I also expected you to condemn rapists but instead you make a joke of it.

The point is your initial point about rape is false. How can anyone not be offended by that especially when it isn't true. Disgusting.

So, if the Koran instructs you to do something, I was under the impression that was not negotiable - because the Koran is the infallible word of God as transmitted through His Prophet.

There are trends in Muslim countries, you get your shit together once you get old, but even that is totally up to you in a non-salafi environment. The Qur'an has regulations on how to treat slaves when they were socially acceptable. It says that adultery is a sin but if you think majority actually adhere to this than you are dehumanizing plain and simple.

Who am I? A PhD candidate studying medieval Christian heresy with a side line the Classics who studied, among others, Alexander's Conquest of the Persian Empire and an amateur interest in Archaeology. I can also, as I said, read a map and a book. Give me a year and I'll write you a paper on all the people in the Levant who aren't really Arabs.

Putting aside the douchey response I hope you do write that paper and come to realize you're wrong, but maybe you'll run with it anyway I imagine.

Please don't list your credentials again, it's embarrassing. How incredibly pretentious. This is a message board.

It means that it's profoundly weird that when looking at Jordan, which is doing better than almost any other country in the region at almost everything, you decide to call it a "joke". You could have said it was an example for the other countries in the region to aspire to.

It certainly is an example to aspire to which is why I said I love Jordan's political system. Kuwait is also very interesting. Jordanians would strongly disagree with you that their country is doing better "at almost everything." Jordan and Jordanians have the best relationship with the gulf (definitely in the UAE most of all), but the country doesn't come close to the gulf. They want to make their country better and Dubai serves as a model for all Arabs.

Stop excusing the failings of the people in the Middle East, a thousand years ago Babylon had street lighting and what was very nearly a public health service. You are basically characterising your own people as stupid and cowardly, unable or unwilling to realise that they have spent a century or so in a cultural and social backslide.

I am baffled that you came to this conclusion doctor.

[Papewaio]

The Queen is both head of state and head of the clergy (Supreme Governor of the Church of England).

Also the British Queen is also the Queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and over a dozen other countries. The Queen is also the head of the Commonwealth of Nations which has over 2 billion people and a combined GDP about ten times that of Saudi Arabia. With some of the most developed and free citizens within those member nations.

[Fragony]

The Queen is both head of state and head of the clergy (Supreme Governor of the Church of England).

Also the British Queen is also the Queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and over a dozen other countries. The Queen is also the head of the Commonwealth of Nations which has over 2 billion people and a combined GDP about ten times that of Saudi Arabia. With some of the most developed and free citizens within those member nations.

As if they needed a queen for that, she is just a ceremonial muppet

[Greyblades]

Frags, what did we say about you projecting your monarchy's unpopularity onto others?

[Fragony]

Frags, what did we say about you projecting your monarchy's unpopularity onto others?

The same thing my mommy said about various things

[Papewaio]

As if they needed a queen for that, she is just a ceremonial muppet

Applicable to all monarchs and heads of religion.

However mileage does vary compare and contrast the current Pope with predecessors.

[AE Bravo]

Saying that she has more power than Al Saud is a bit of a stretch, take a look at the net worth and who has an active participation in international relations.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

1979? Look up more recent visits, the difference is the king is head of state (does not answer to clergy) and the queen is good at being admired for uselessness.

I cannot see a record of a more recent visit by the Queen to Saudi Arabia, Prince Charles was the one who visited when King Abdullah died. You are also labouring under a miss-apprehension, the queen is not admired for being useless, but for doing nothing. Ever heard the phrase "walk softly and carry a big stick"?

She has in the past chosen a Prime Minister without reference to the House of Commons (that did not go well) and it 2010 she threatened to nullify elections and have them re-run after the parties spent a few weeks in deadlock.

She could, if she so wished, dismiss parliament or strip it of its executive function entirely and reduce it to a consultative body which drafted law.

Granted, there would be a revolt, but she has that legal power.

The people who resort to violence. Obviously.

Then you needed to preface that whole passage with "the people who resort to violence are..." if you don't want to be miss-understood.

They are students of salafism. Your problem is salafism. The poor, oppressed, or uneducated are easy targets.

Yes, I am aware, but a lot of the Imans who whip them up come from the Levant and the Gulf, and now you have IS so I think these extremists are more prevalent in the Gulf itself than you want to admit, or are aware of. If that were not the case then I have to wonder why the well of nutjobs has not run dry.

They can go to hell then. This is not how I was raised or most people I know were, you can believe what you want.

The point is your initial point about rape is false. How can anyone not be offended by that especially when it isn't true. Disgusting.

Levity regarding rape offends me. I am deeply suspicious of the claim that you don't have the "she was asking for it" problem in the Middle East given that it seems to be a view of many of the Middle Easteners I have met - not all or even necessarily a majority but still more than the Europeans I have met. Maybe only arseholes come to the UK.

There are trends in Muslim countries, you get your shit together once you get old, but even that is totally up to you in a non-salafi environment. The Qur'an has regulations on how to treat slaves when they were socially acceptable. It says that adultery is a sin but if you think majority actually adhere to this than you are dehumanizing plain and simple.

Putting aside the douchey response I hope you do write that paper and come to realize you're wrong, but maybe you'll run with it anyway I imagine.

Please don't list your credentials again, it's embarrassing. How incredibly pretentious. This is a message board.

You asked who I was, I answered, partly so that you know I'm not making pretensions to being a Middle Eastern Scholar or a Linguist, but you can take it the other way if you want.

It certainly is an example to aspire to which is why I said I love Jordan's political system. Kuwait is also very interesting. Jordanians would strongly disagree with you that their country is doing better "at almost everything." Jordan and Jordanians have the best relationship with the gulf (definitely in the UAE most of all), but the country doesn't come close to the gulf. They want to make their country better and Dubai serves as a model for all Arabs.

Doesn't Dubai still have debter's prison? Dubai is also famous here for the horrific treatment of Sub-Continental workers who live in conditions that have been compared to African slavery two hundred years ago - the country is also an absolute monarchy with no elections, people are put to death if convicted of homosexuality and imprisoned for kissing.

I am baffled that you came to this conclusion doctor.

Ah, no, I am still working on the PhD. Perhaps the problem is that what I see as failings you do not, and therefore we are talking at cross-purposes.

[AE Bravo]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...0visits%20gulf

Yes, I am aware, but a lot of the Imans who whip them up come from the Levant and the Gulf, and now you have IS so I think these extremists are more prevalent in the Gulf itself than you want to admit, or are aware of. If that were not the case then I have to wonder why the well of nutjobs has not run dry.

I have a feeling the majority went to school in Saudi Arabia or regularly go to wahhabi-funded mosques. There is a distinction between the gulf and Saudi Arabia, different regimes. Oman doesn't care about which sect you belong to, you pray in the same place as shias whether you're a sufi or sunni. UAE is a federation that has cracked down on the brotherhood back in 2011 and is known to oppose Islamist movements or any prospect of wahhabism in the country, we were at war with wahhabis some 60-80 years ago along with Oman. Kuwait isn't known to spawn these people, Bahrain is a Shia-majority so certainly not either.

The gulf takes control of their Islamic institutions and monitor their mosques. Whatever type of people those mosques produce are generally a reflection of the state's worldview, and what you are witnessing in the UK is Saudi-Wahhabi zeal at its finest. Your mosques belong to them.

Doesn't Dubai still have debter's prison? Dubai is also famous here for the horrific treatment of Sub-Continental workers who live in conditions that have been compared to African slavery two hundred years ago - the country is also an absolute monarchy with no elections, people are put to death if convicted of homosexuality and imprisoned for kissing.

I don't know why the steps being taken to solve these issues aren't covered, locals speak about this often and nationals are actually ashamed of this, it's a serious issue. This doesn't change the fact that Dubai is a model for Arabs, that's why it's such a diverse city.

On paper it's supposed to be sharia, conservative Arabs and Muslims might hate Dubai. I was there a few weeks ago and kissing is a minor offense, but pda/public sex can lead to deportation. Homosexuals aren't executed, that is a lie.

See you say these things but there really isn't that much negativity to say about Dubai itself. I can list all of UK's shortcomings and that will blow it out of the water but I understand it. Also because I've actually been to the UK.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...0visits%20gulf

So she visited the UAE - that's not Saudi Arabia.

ERII is the most powerful and respected monarch on the planet - I don't think there's really any real argument you can put up against that. The fact that she, by convention, will rarely exercise that power is another matter.

I have a feeling the majority went to school in Saudi Arabia or regularly go to wahhabi-funded mosques. There is a distinction between the gulf and Saudi Arabia, different regimes. Oman doesn't care about which sect you belong to, you pray in the same place as shias whether you're a sufi or sunni. UAE is a federation that has cracked down on the brotherhood back in 2011 and is known to oppose Islamist movements or any prospect of wahhabism in the country, we were at war with wahhabis some 60-80 years ago along with Oman. Kuwait isn't known to spawn these people, Bahrain is a Shia-majority so certainly not either.

The gulf takes control of their Islamic institutions and monitor their mosques. Whatever type of people those mosques produce are generally a reflection of the state's worldview, and what you are witnessing in the UK is Saudi-Wahhabi zeal at its finest. Your mosques belong to them.

You are, indeed, correct that we have a big problem with Saudi funded Mosques here, it's taken a few decades but the government here has finally grasped the nature of the problem.

My point, though, and it may not be as apparent in the UAE where there are so many wealthy cities, is that there's a substrate in the Gulf, the Levant, and even in Turkey which when asked to vote will vote for the Muslim Brotherhood or someone reading from the same book. I think it's entirely wrong to write this off as a Saudi problem, if it was IS would have no traction.

I don't know why the steps being taken to solve these issues aren't covered, locals speak about this often and nationals are actually ashamed of this, it's a serious issue. This doesn't change the fact that Dubai is a model for Arabs, that's why it's such a diverse city.

The Emir of Dubai is an absolute monarch and one of the most wealthy individuals in the world, but he has allowed Indian workers to live in shipping containers - and the same is going on in neighbouring Qatar. I knoe steps are being taken to address the issue but the issue should be fixed by now, or it should never have got that way to begin with.

On paper it's supposed to be sharia, conservative Arabs and Muslims might hate Dubai. I was there a few weeks ago and kissing is a minor offense, but pda/public sex can lead to deportation. Homosexuals aren't executed, that is a lie.

Well, having sex in public might get you locked up here, too.

As far as I'm aware the legal code in Dubai proscribes death for homosexual acts, whether people are often prosecuted or not is another matter. Until around 50 years ago homosexuality was illegal in this country but rarely prosecuted, when the government started to crack down in the 50's and 60's there was a public backlash and the law was changed.

See you say these things but there really isn't that much negativity to say about Dubai itself. I can list all of UK's shortcomings and that will blow it out of the water but I understand it. Also because I've actually been to the UK.

Aside from the oppressive legal system, the absolute monarch, the dependence on oil-wealth, the criminalisation of homosexuality and the treatment of foreign labourers, you mean?

I hear it's a great place if you have money and hell on Earth if, as a foreign worker, you lose your job and don't have enough money to pay your debts.

[Husar]

ERII is the most powerful and respected monarch on the planet - I don't think there's really any real argument you can put up against that. The fact that she, by convention, will rarely exercise that power is another matter.

That whole argument seems schizophrenic to me. She has the most power but she can't and won't use it because then she'd be overthrown by a revolt. So basically she doesn't have a lot of power because she'd be overthrown if she made use of most of her theoretical powers.
And if she could make use of all of her powers, you might not live in a democracy anymore. So your queen is effectively quite powerless and can only intervene in a few occasions IF the true holders of power, the people, have her back.

[Gilrandir]

Yeah, well.
The point is that Syria has something in common with Kazakhstan, namely Islam as the dominant religion (Syria is/was a relatively secular state, anyway).

In non-Muslim Europe, there is even less in common. Still no language, still no ethnicity - and no religion, in common. There's almost nothing. In Kazakhstan, there is something; something not insignificant.

I disagree.
Do you really consider Europe non-Muslim? What about numerous Turks in Germany (where most immigrants seem to be heading) to say nothing of "non-Muslim" France? So Syrians are likely to find in Europe as many things in common as they would in Kazakhstan.

I'm not sure you understand, you seem to think that "Constitutional Monarchy" is different to democracy. It's not - I live in a democracy which is simultaneously a Constitutional Monarchy and under the Constitution the Monarch's power is absolute - the Saudi King wishes he was as powerful as my Queen who rules by the Grace of God.

Is there a constitution in Britain or am I missing something?

We created Trans-Jordan to limit Jewish territorial expansion by dividing Palestine in half. Originally what is now "Israel" and "Jordan" would have been "Palestine" because Classicists drew that may and divided it into the old Roman provinces. Joradn is also not a joke, the fact that you think it is speaks volumes.

I would also like to add that if we adopt the perspective of HitWithThe5, many modern countries are jokes. I don't pretend to be a connoseuir of the Arab world, but it seems to me (as a layman) that there is not much difference between Bahrain and Qatar or Oman and UAE or Kuwait and Qatar (in terms of ethnicity, language, religion, traditions and mentality) to justify carving the south of the Gulf into so many countries. Or between Algeria and Tunisia, Lebannon and Syria. And we can leave the Arabs alone and say the same about Bolivia vs Peru, Colombia vs Venezuela, Costa Rica vs Panama etc. Too many jokes and coffee-stains on the world map today.

[Viking]

The Dutch language in Indonesia died shortly after independence. In fact, there is no longer a native ethnic-Dutch population in Indonesia. This is not the case simply because some native ethnic-Dutch left the region after the war and independence. It is because they mixed and assimilated so thoroughly that they simply stopped passing on their Dutch language and culture within a single generation.

Admittedly, the role played by population proportions is large. After independence, only a few tens of thousands of "full-blooded" Dutch remained in the long-term. There were already some hundreds of thousands of Indo-Dutch (i.e. "mixed"), but their assimilated identity had already been forming for centuries. Nevertheless, it is one of a few notable cases of entire European colonial populations 'going native', so to speak.

As far as I can see, the war in Indonesia and subsequent exodus of Dutch people played a huge role here; so this lesson does not seem overly relevant when calculating the odds of e.g. Syrians assimilating in Europe. When you have great disturbance in a country, things work differently.

They could do that in Libya, even though they never even accomplished it in Syria - their backyard?

The rebel front in Syria never collapsed. If it had collapsed in Libya, and then IS managed to enter the scene and open a front, then yes, I think they could recruit efficiently from many Libyan rebel groups (and they presumably do recruit from other rebel groups in Syria thanks to their impressive performance there).

Before they started getting funded by nato? No. When you arm islamists you best believe they’re gonna run with it forever. In Libya everyone and their dog knew who's boss as soon as it happened - Islamists, taking over your neighborhood and telling you its time to atone for the country's sins.

Islamists were the most organized armed groups, they were trained in turkey, and had the support of nato and its lackeys.

Which islamists are you actually talking about? According to some, the forces currently at play in Libya have very different motives.

Denying that this is a failed NATO operation is laughable at this point.

Not by normal definitions of the word operation. The NATO operation ended shortly after Gaddafi was killed, and its primary aim was to remove Gaddafi from power, which took just a few months. After that, NATO largely had a passive role.

That what happened next may not have been what NATO leaders hoped for is another matter.

Uniting Libyans? I don’t see any of this happening.

Yet they united against Gaddafi.

I disagree.
Do you really consider Europe non-Muslim? What about numerous Turks in Germany (where most immigrants seem to be heading) to say nothing of "non-Muslim" France? So Syrians are likely to find in Europe as many things in common as they would in Kazakhstan.

Turks in Germany are immigrants, they are an example of the phenomenon I am talking about.

Some European countries might have Muslim populations that can be counted as native, but they are still in the minority (or just a big fraction); so any assimilation into these groups doesn't eliminate the fundamental issue. Albania (and Kosovo) is probably the closest you get to a Muslim-majority country in Europe, and, yeah, I believe Syrian refugees would be more likely to assimilate in Albania than e.g. in Northern Europe over time. But it would also depend on how capable of and interested in the state is when it comes to integrating the refugees into society; a poorly-integrated group is likely to stay separate.

[Gilrandir]

But it would also depend on how capable of and interested in the state is when it comes to integrating the refugees into society; a poorly-integrated group is likely to stay separate.

I believe France would give other Europeans a most useful advice on how to integrate a huge Muslim populace and keep the civil peace and unity of the society.

That's true, but I don't dislike it just because of its geography. I don't like the way their monarchy dealt with Palestinians, their military cooperation with Israel (arms deals), and their Hashemite monarchy.

Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, I dislike all their governments but Jordan's stance on the issue I find repulsive from an Arab state that professes what I mentioned above.

Personal distate of a country's policies is not a reason to call the country a joke.

Anyhow with the increase of solar, wind, micro grids and electric cars the demand for petrol will diminish over time.

I think over QUITE A LONGISH SPELL of time. Oil lobbysts will do (and are in fact doing) their utmost to play down or hold in check progress in alternative energy consumption.

So just based on current global trends oil nations will need to find alternative methods of propping up their economies.

Or will try hard to put a stop on anything that threatens their current source of income.

[Papewaio]

Solar and Wind power already are on par with coal supplied electricity at the home for cost per kw.

It's not if electric cars will make an impact on oil prices its when it will happen. Maybe the VW scandal will speed up the adoption of electric as it seems there is no such thing as a green diesel.

[AE Bravo]

Personal distate of a country's policies is not a reason to call the country a joke.

Their monarchy is a joke then, for the reasons I mentioned.

[AE Bravo]

I would also like to add that if we adopt the perspective of HitWithThe5, many modern countries are jokes. I don't pretend to be a connoseuir of the Arab world, but it seems to me (as a layman) that there is not much difference between Bahrain and Qatar or Oman and UAE or Kuwait and Qatar (in terms of ethnicity, language, religion, traditions and mentality) to justify carving the south of the Gulf into so many countries. Or between Algeria and Tunisia, Lebannon and Syria. And we can leave the Arabs alone and say the same about Bolivia vs Peru, Colombia vs Venezuela, Costa Rica vs Panama etc. Too many jokes and coffee-stains on the world map today.

That's true, but I don't dislike it just because of its geography. I don't like the way their monarchy dealt with Palestinians, their military cooperation with Israel (arms deals), and their Hashemite monarchy. These Hashemites claim they are descendants of the prophet:

1. First of all this doesn't mean anything. Islam does not recognize kings, there is only one monarch and that is god in Islam, caliphs are a post-da'wa construction. There is no framework for governance in Islam. Even Al Saud do not make such ridiculous claims for themselves in lineage.
2. If we go by their ancestral claim, they are actually descendants of the prophet's evil uncle Abu Lahab.
3. You'll find quite a few Jordanians shaking their head in agreement when you mention Black September's atrocities and other Hashemite meddling against Palestinians.

Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, I dislike all their governments but Jordan's stance on the issue I find repulsive from an Arab state that professes what I mentioned above. That's another topic though I don't care to discuss. I like Jordan.