IMMIGRATION thread

[AE Bravo]

Thus, in total, the Libyan government’s high-end estimate of the conflict’s death toll, as of January 2013, is 11,500.
These two estimates of 8,000 and 11,500—by the U.S. and Libyan governments, respectively—conceivably bound the actual number killed in the conflict. If so, and if the counterfactual analysis above is correct, then NATO intervention magnified the death toll in Libya by about seven to ten times. This would be consistent both with city-level data provided by the rebels, indicating that the intervention multiplied the number of deaths in Tripoli and Misurata, and with NATO’s broadening of the geographic scope of fighting within the country. It also would confirm the speculation of knowledgeable observers, such as Seumas Milne, who opined at the war’s end that “while the death toll in Libya when NATO intervened was perhaps around 1,000–2,000 (judging by UN estimates), eight months later it is probably more than ten times that figure.”59

If the fighting made a "bloodbath" after the intervention had started, it would be just as much because Gaddafi refused to give up. And why would he - I am sure his conscience was very far from clean. Good things weren't waiting for him.

No, no not just as much.

But I got to ask how many Libyans you've asked about whether or not the intervention was a bad thing, and for those who say it was a bad thing: if that's the opinion they've held all the time or if it is based on hindsight.

Hindsight.