IMMIGRATION thread

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Isn't that true for pretty much all religions that come from a time when left-wing, as we know it today, hardly existed?

Many Christians today support equal treatment for homosexuals, inter-faith marriage, believe that non-Christians go to heaven etc. Likewise many Jews and Sikhs.

By contrast you'll see that even apparently Westernised Muslims want their own schools, won't allow their children to mix freely - want to see women segregated.

I've certainly met more liberal Muslims, but as individuals only. Back when we were talking about the Hijab etc. there was a BBC program on the subject and what you saw there was that the majority of Muslim women wear some form of face covering BUT the women coming in to talk to them about how to deal with anti-Muslim abuse generally didn't.

A lot of the covered Muslim women talked about the need to be "demure" and how they were singled out for abuse because people knew - as Muslim women - that they wouldn't fight back.

[Husar]

Many Christians today support equal treatment for homosexuals, inter-faith marriage, believe that non-Christians go to heaven etc. Likewise many Jews and Sikhs.

None of them true believers according to the book.

[HopAlongBunny]

Obviously the Pope should declare a combined Crusade/Inquisition to wipe out the heresy.

[Husar]

My assumption is merely that the level of mass-religion is somewhat anti-proportional to the economic development of a country with a time delay as decadence and consumerism tend to let people forget their religious obligations. Of course exceptions prove the rule, as usual. Christians were religious for decades after the industrial revolution and most of our Muslims have only been here for a few decades at most. The rich leaders of countries have long been said to merely use religion as a tool, why would that be if their status and possibilities had not turned them into at least less strict believers? A true believer would not want to use his religion as a tool for manipulation, no?

[AE Bravo]

Many Christians today support equal treatment for homosexuals, inter-faith marriage, believe that non-Christians go to heaven etc. Likewise many Jews and Sikhs.

Acceptance of Islamism as it becomes mainstream in Europe defeats any incentive an immigrant might have to fully integrate. Treating places of worship and schools as foreign networks that you can’t touch leads to a further drift apart from the host. There’s no interest in engaging this culture, just alienating it. So apparently no commitment to the “integration” everyone’s crying about either.

Unlike most Muslims, they gave up on most of their religion. Tolerating things that go against your beliefs is not the same as embracing them. Every Christian I’ve met is Christian in name only.

By contrast you'll see that even apparently Westernised Muslims want their own schools, won't allow their children to mix freely - want to see women segregated.

I doubt it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Acceptance of Islamism as it becomes mainstream in Europe defeats any incentive an immigrant might have to fully integrate. Treating places of worship and schools as foreign networks that you can’t touch leads to a further drift apart from the host. There’s no interest in engaging this culture, just alienating it. So apparently no commitment to the “integration” everyone’s crying about either.

we don't inter fer with Churches, Temples or Synagogues either.

It's called Freedom of Religion.

It's a really big thing here - especially in the UK after our religious wars.

Unlike most Muslims, they gave up on most of their religion. Tolerating things that go against your beliefs is not the same as embracing them. Every Christian I’ve met is Christian in name only.

You're a Muslim that drinks.

Having said that, this is all a matter of perspective. a True Christian does not harm to others, loves all mankind, serves God and gives all his possessions tot he poor. From what I've read a true Muslim spends all his time converting others to Islam, by persuasion or by threat of violence.

For a given value of "true" of course because, in fact, there are several ways to interpret each religion, every religion, and writing off all Christians are false shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is about and what is actually written in the Gospel. In fact, the Gospel says you can spend your whole life apart from God so long as, when you die, you are with God.

Anyway, this comment makes me think you don't believe in "Left Wing" Islam yourself.

I doubt it.

Look up Operation Torjan Horse - there were two separate enquiries and both concluded that Muslim parents were trying to Islamise State Schools, and that the local Council was craven in confronting them about it.

I don't know what you consider "Left Wing" Islam but I have a suspicion that it's nothing like anything "Left Wing" in Europe, and that we have little or none of it here in any case.

[Pannonian]

we don't inter fer with Churches, Temples or Synagogues either.

It's called Freedom of Religion.

It's a really big thing here - especially in the UK after our religious wars.



You're a Muslim that drinks.

Having said that, this is all a matter of perspective. a True Christian does not harm to others, loves all mankind, serves God and gives all his possessions tot he poor. From what I've read a true Muslim spends all his time converting others to Islam, by persuasion or by threat of violence.

For a given value of "true" of course because, in fact, there are several ways to interpret each religion, every religion, and writing off all Christians are false shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is about and what is actually written in the Gospel. In fact, the Gospel says you can spend your whole life apart from God so long as, when you die, you are with God.

Anyway, this comment makes me think you don't believe in "Left Wing" Islam yourself.



Look up Operation Torjan Horse - there were two separate enquiries and both concluded that Muslim parents were trying to Islamise State Schools, and that the local Council was craven in confronting them about it.

I don't know what you consider "Left Wing" Islam but I have a suspicion that it's nothing like anything "Left Wing" in Europe, and that we have little or none of it here in any case.

And in any case, even "true Christians" aren't particularly welcome in the UK if they try to impose their views on others. The UK is overwhelmingly secular.