IMMIGRATION thread

[Gilrandir]

a True Christian does not harm to others, loves all mankind, serves God and gives all his possessions tot he poor.

OMG! Almost all Popes of the past were not true Christians then. And most of medieval Europe neither.

Go pester someone else. If you didn't understand it during my two previous attempt to explain, you either dumb or a troll.

Calling names is the last (and symptomatic) resort when you find yourself beaten with your own weapon. Way to go!

[AE Bravo]

we don't inter fer with Churches, Temples or Synagogues either.

They're not funded by organizations affiliated with enemies of the state. Preachers in churches and synagogues don't regularly practice sedition either. This is a unique case, freedom of religion is being subverted by those who run places of worship.

You're a Muslim that drinks.

Having said that, this is all a matter of perspective. a True Christian does not harm to others, loves all mankind, serves God and gives all his possessions tot he poor. From what I've read a true Muslim spends all his time converting others to Islam, by persuasion or by threat of violence.

Drinking isn't a big offense, it is not prohibited in the Qur'an. Wasn’t banned until the eleventh century. I have no interest in converting anyone and I'm pretty Islam doesn't require me to.

The things you described as true to Christianity apply to all religions. The Bible is a bit more Old Testament is what I’m saying. It's clear that most Christians don't take their religion seriously and veneration/worship is becoming less important for them. Faith in its traditional form in Christianity has been on the decline.

Anyway, this comment makes me think you don't believe in "Left Wing" Islam yourself.

Of course I do, Syria not too long ago and Egypt. By left I don't mean do everything to make the religion less relevant.

Look up Operation Torjan Horse - there were two separate enquiries and both concluded that Muslim parents were trying to Islamise State Schools, and that the local Council was craven in confronting them about it.

I don't know what you consider "Left Wing" Islam but I have a suspicion that it's nothing like anything "Left Wing" in Europe, and that we have little or none of it here in any case.

That's only one incident, hardly enough to make the bold statement that westernized Muslims want their own separate sharia schools.

I bet there are a ****load of interfaith marriages, gay Muslims, and born Muslims that relate more to EU stuff but they're just a "minority" so they don't matter, because Islamists are just louder so they must be "mainstream" as well.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

OMG! Almost all Popes of the past were not true Christians then. And most of medieval Europe neither.

Not whilst they were killing, no.

They're not funded by organizations affiliated with enemies of the state. Preachers in churches and synagogues don't regularly practice sedition either. This is a unique case, freedom of religion is being subverted by those who run places of worship.

And where preachers are shown to be funded by terrorists, or are stirring up hatred or inciting violence that can be dealt with.

What you're essentially saying is that the Imans in this country signed Faustian pacts with the Muslim Brotherhood etc. and now the Mosques have been taken over by radicals and hardliners. This view is reductive, it assumes that the majority of Muslims are extremely stupid and with believe whatever in Imax says AND it ignores the simple fact that moderate Islam in the UK is largely not listend to anymore.



Drinking isn't a big offense, it is not prohibited in the Qur'an. Wasn’t banned until the eleventh century. I have no interest in converting anyone and I'm pretty Islam doesn't require me to.

The things you described as true to Christianity apply to all religions. The Bible is a bit more Old Testament is what I’m saying. It's clear that most Christians don't take their religion seriously and veneration/worship is becoming less important for them. Faith in its traditional form in Christianity has been on the decline.

It is true that the established Churches are in decline, or were, but a lot of this can be seem as a reaction against two World Wars. My parents' generation believed that everybody would become atheists but most of my friends are Christian or agnostic. However, because of the big dip in the popularity of religion among the previous generation the established Church lost it's broad base of adherents and hence its influence.

So, today, Christians in my generation come to Christianity by reading the Bible rather than going to Church - then they often go find a Church they like. This means they're often relatively ignorant of the Church Fathers and later writers, and that they come to the religion with their own viewpoint and then ajust that to a group they feel comfortable with, rather than being part of a group and then interpreting the Creed in their own way.

Or, to put it another way, orthodoxy is mostly dead here and we have a lot of heretics.

As far as all religions believing that you should do no harm to others - that's a long way from being true. The Jewish God El in his original form was vengeful and wrathful and his harsh judgement reached down through the generations. He repeatedly ordered the massacre of entire peoples. Allah sent the Prophet on a mission to, essentially, conquer the world - something which assumes that killing for God in battle if righteous. Indeed, I'm fairly certain that in some instances the Prophet ordered entire populations massacred when they refused to convert and special consideration was only given to Christians and Jews.

Those are the better religions - most other religions have death-cults and endorse human sacrifice of either loved ones or enemies. Woden takes only warriors who have killed and died in battle to Valhalla, the Allfather has no use for peacemakers or farmers he needs only warriors for the Last Battle.

Christianity is a pacifistic religion, for all that Christians have rarely been pacifists. It is also a religion for servants and slaves, for all that Christians have tried to rule the world.

Of course I do, Syria not too long ago and Egypt. By left I don't mean do everything to make the religion less relevant.

What is "Left Wing" Islam though? Equal rights for women? Disregarding of headcoverings for the same? What about homosexuals? What's the stance on corporal punishement for children? Principles of government?

That's only one incident, hardly enough to make the bold statement that westernized Muslims want their own separate sharia schools.

14 schools, in one area. I suspect it was not isolated, but that the government has been trying to quietly identify other offenders. Also, I said "apparently Westernised" Muslims, not that all Westernised Muslims want Sharia schools - but that many who appear well integrated aren't, really.

I bet there are a ****load of interfaith marriages, gay Muslims, and born Muslims that relate more to EU stuff but they're just a "minority" so they don't matter, because Islamists are just louder so they must be "mainstream" as well.

I have no idea what "EU stuff" is - unless you mean fishing quotas - but yes there are of course interfaith marriages and gay Muslims. There was a documentary about Gay Muslims recently called "Muslim Drag Queens" and it was mostly about how they're ostracised and receive death threats.

Fact is, there are widespread problems with abuse of women and homosexuals, honour killings, forced marriages and female genital mutilations. We have special police task forces for the latter. Now, do I think that the majority of Muslims do these things? No, but I do think the majority are more in sympathy with the perpetrators than with me.

[CrossLOPER]

Calling names is the last (and symptomatic) resort when you find yourself beaten with your own weapon. Way to go!

There was a guy around here back in about 2007 who refused to download Adobe Reader to read official documents to understand an argument. I suspect the frustration is similar to that.