IMMIGRATION thread

[Shaka_Khan]

I doubt that the police will catch all 1000 of them. Germany needs to increase police presence in the dangerous areas. The offenders will do this again if they feel that they can get away with it. In the American cities like Detroit and L.A. and in the Australian cities like Melbourne, cops are unable to stop gang violence. In these areas, bystanders become victims of gang rivalries because the gangs mistook them as rival gang members. If someone gets robbed or gets his or her car vandalized in these cities, the cops will say that the victim was at a sketchy area and will most likely do nothing about it. The cops accepted this as being normal. There are crazies in every city. However, some cities don't experience problems from them because those potential troublemakers know that they'd get in trouble if they attack people.

I for one believe that the offenders knew what they were doing was wrong. They assaulted a police woman who tried to stop them. It's a problem if the offenders aren't afraid of the police. Who's going to stop them? The lack of action is making these offenders feel more powerful. The best way to educate these offenders is to increase police presence. Then they'll know that Germany isn't allowing these offenses to happen. If an offender goes back to that train station and see an increase in the number of police, then that offender will know that Germany is doing something about this. If Germany doesn't, then they'll think the German government doesn't care. The German police should've reacted quickly with more police when it was happening.

[Kralizec]

I doubt that the police will catch all 1000 of them.

The articles I've read about it are vague, but my impression is that 1,000 refers to all the young men gathered in the street and not the perpetrators. The reports say that large groups of men preyed on lone victims, "large groups" possibly meaning 20 or more, but the idea of 1,000 sexual predators gathering in one place to cause trouble seems ridiculous.

And yes, of course that is still bad, and it probably has more than a little to do with the background of the perpetrators. One would hope it's not necessary to explicitly say so after a post like this one, but you know, internets

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The articles I've read about it are vague, but my impression is that 1,000 refers to all the young men gathered in the street and not the perpetrators. The reports say that large groups of men preyed on lone victims, "large groups" possibly meaning 20 or more, but the idea of 1,000 sexual predators gathering in one place to cause trouble seems ridiculous.

And yes, of course that is still bad, and it probably has more than a little to do with the background of the perpetrators. One would hope it's not necessary to explicitly say so after a post like this one, but you know, internets

+1 Internets for stating what should be obvious, but isn't.

A back of the envelope figure for you -

90 reported sexual assaults, lets assume groups of three women and make an allowance for unreported assaults, say 35 separate instances of gang attacks - reports of groups of 20-30 men , average 25.

So - 25*35=875.

That assumes the number of unreported offences is quite low and each group of men only attacked a single group of women. I would say the latter assumption was relatively sound, as I can't really see groups forming, assaulting girls and then moving on to assault more girls. That kind of mob action tends to be a one off thing rather than something you repeat throughout the night.

In any case, 1,000 suspects is clearly not an improbable estimate.

[Kralizec]

+1 Internets for stating what should be obvious, but isn't.

A back of the envelope figure for you -

90 reported sexual assaults, lets assume groups of three women and make an allowance for unreported assaults, say 35 separate instances of gang attacks - reports of groups of 20-30 men , average 25.

So - 25*35=875.

That assumes the number of unreported offences is quite low and each group of men only attacked a single group of women. I would say the latter assumption was relatively sound, as I can't really see groups forming, assaulting girls and then moving on to assault more girls. That kind of mob action tends to be a one off thing rather than something you repeat throughout the night.

In any case, 1,000 suspects is clearly not an improbable estimate.

I disagree, I don’t think your assumption makes a lot of sense. I’ve been to Keulen (as Dutch people know it) and as I recall the area in question isn’t that big, not large enough to accommodate many thousands. Are we going to believe that most of the males present engaged in this behaviour, or that everyone on the square was an Arab or African for that matter?
“Indecent assault” is a vague term and probably some of those could have been adolescent boys cupping a feel for giggles, before resuming their normal drunken behaviour for the rest of the night. Like petty vandalism, it’s something that I can believe that most of the people present would be capable of.

For the more serious ones though I think it’s very likely that they were committed by less than a hundred people total spread in three or four groups (and I think it’s plausible that they were of certain ethnicities). A group rape, or an assault bordering on rape requires some serious peer pressure and I don’t see a group of 1.000 people who’ve randomly gathered collectively engaging in it. I’d wager that most of those people where regular drunken rabble (brown or not), of the kind you see in every city on new years night.