IMMIGRATION thread

[Beskar]

Good!
Can you tell us what logical fallacy is being used in that post from reddit? It's pretty subtile.

What do you see?

I got to agree with Monty here as I am curious as to what you are seeing in the post. But since you asked first, I will say my opinion then answer your question.

If I am honest, I have only read "cultural enrichment" as tongue-in-cheek remark as depicted by Myth above, and used in posts from Fragony, and not used in any kind of serious discourse from a proponent who actually believes in it as a term. My understanding of the term is that is used ironically by people, usually referring to people who believe in cultural discourse in a derogative manner because they dislike the other culture entirely on an almost xenophobia level for many reasons which range from legitimate concerns to misconstrued facts.

Just for definition purposes, I view cultural discourse as being where cultures interact with each other, and generally benign aspects of them are incorporated into another culture, ranging from things such a curry houses, pyjamas, blue jeans, and jazz music, or the introduction of political concepts such as freedom/liberty/democracy, welfare state, and unfortunately sometimes negative concepts (such as fascism) can enter a culture consciousness as well. Either way, a culture may adapt and change due to the discourse, but they are not dominated (that is something else).

But back more on topic, I was interested in other opinions and this was linked to a basic google search by myself on the subject where I found a proponent who ended up explaining the meaning, including the tongue-in-cheek version as well.

From what I gather from the reddit post directly, I will break it down as followed:

Even in a world filled with many cultures, not everyone has experience with them. Due to reasons, this could involve someone making a statement which is unfortunately comes across as either: ignorant or very uninformed. Proponents of the terms suggest that such people should "culturally enrich" themselves so they are better informed.
- I agree, the term 'cultural enrichment' sounds horrible, which is probably part of why I thought it was only ironically used, however, the sentiment behind it is that people who are ignorant/uninformed should go out of their way to have a better understanding of it. I think it is fair to say, this not a bad principle.

With the second paragraph, it is saying that there are those who disagree with proponents use the term tongue-in-cheek to say they are better informed than those who suggest otherwise, suggesting they should 'culturally enrich' themselves with the negatives.
- There are some legitimate concerns being raised. If you are homosexual for example, I don't think by 'cultural enriching' yourself openly in a hostile environment such as Russia or Iran for example would be a good idea.
- However, again, there are people who are ignorant of others, who make statements which are simply not true and just plain offensive to innocent people. There are many people I know for example who are Muslim and they are very tolerant of other people, they work hard, they pay their taxes, they don't stigmatise others, and they don't want to implement sharia law or impose their faith on others. Should these people get through into a grouping which doesn't reflect them or their values in the slightest? This is not rejecting the fact there are those of extreme opinions, just like there are non-muslims of extreme opinions, but it is worrying when people use these extreme examples such as being the 'norm' for people who are assigned an abstract social category they have no say in.

As for the second part of the second paragraph, this goes more indepth explaining there are time that people use extreme examples, or '5 minute clip of a violent incident' to start attributing labels to people who are not even linked with the incident as being their typical behaviour.
- I think Myth's post is a perfect example of this. He linked a video of a group of black teens harassing a woman with antisocial behaviour, then he clearly says "Cultural enrichment in France". What is really being said here? What is being heavily implied is that "Black people/Immigrants/Label-Here (whole) are antisocial". (I will go for first for sake of brevity)
- Finding an issue with this statement "Black People (whole) are antisocial" does not condone the behaviour of those individuals involved in this incident, or defending the individuals of the people involved in the clip (as you very eagerly suggested FisherKing, you jumped fast into making that a point). The behaviour in the clip is not warranted or acceptable, and if you look in the Backroom video topic, I recently made a post which explicitly stated that being from another culture/label does not make certain behaviour acceptable.
- What 'finding an issue with the statement' really means is finding an issue in that statement, the main issue being a very gross misrepresentation of black people as a whole being made on the basis of a minute clip. The clip does not represent day-to-day life, it does not represent the views of a people or their culture. It is an extreme.

The 3rd paragraph then goes into what I mentioned earlier, yes, there are problems in different cultures, yes, there are incidents and challenges that people face, but these are not the majority. Then it expands that people should get to know the issues involved in the relative societies.
- It could be as someone commented earlier, that in another country they don't see women in such revealing clothes and they don't understand the social norms of a different culture so they act inappropriately towards them, and as such, that Norwegian article explains how education helped people understand the differences so they know how to act and in what way.
- Above example is identifying the problem, and it gives a solution to the problem which addresses it.
- Saying that they should be shot out of the water and their villages bombed to the ground does not address the issue or is a solution to the problem.


Now, to the fallacies part... there isn't much of one by any measure, but you even say as such with statement "subtle", which makes me curious to what you think it is, and why you jumped very eagerly to suggest I was making a point which i wasn't approaching.
Only ones which come close as a streeeeetch from guessing what you may be looking for are the following: Strawman, Black-or-White, Composition/Division, Anecdotal, Personal Incredulity.