IMMIGRATION thread

[Montmorency]

"Anglo" is an offensive term that whitewashes English diversity and its ancient history. At least use "Angloid" or something.

[Greyblades]

Wow. That has gotta be the most obscure and unenforced rule ever.

Seriously ive been posting these images for years, several of them beskar thanked. It's never come up.

[Montmorency]

Well, to tell the truth -

I've posted a couple of hotlinked images myself over the years.

I was only told of once, though.

[Sarmatian]

If there is any wrong in the world, it is the fault of the Anglo-Americans. Or so I keep getting told.

I'm really getting the feeling you're tilting at windmills with this one. What I said had nothing to do with that at all. Why is this such a recurring theme with you?

[Sarmatian]

See the s who were born here, were raised here at state expense, who exploit our history of religious tolerance to push for Islamism. And see those uber-liberal idiots who argue that it's all our fault and none of theirs, because they're somehow discriminated against by society (even though their parents who weren't born here don't feel the same way that they do).

They are discriminated against for the most part, but that doesn't justify their behaviour.

I've faced discrimination when I was traveling around western Europe in the second half of the nineties. It was mostly benign and small scale but it was noticeable, and enough to make me uncomfortable. And I was only traveling around as a tourist, so I tried and for the most part succeeded in ignoring it, but maybe it wouldn't have been so easy if I was facing it everyday for a prolonged period of time.

So, those are two separate issues. A country shouldn't be blamed for failed individuals. It depends on the country, of course, but most western countries care about the people. That doesn't mean that countries shouldn't try ever harder to help integrate people into society.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If there weren't any black people, racism wouldn't exist.

There would be no racism is we were all Latin-speaking Romans.

Construction of national identity around physical similarities is a relatively modern phenomenon - language and religion are the more historical markers of a particular "people".

[Pannonian]

They are discriminated against for the most part, but that doesn't justify their behaviour.

I've faced discrimination when I was traveling around western Europe in the second half of the nineties. It was mostly benign and small scale but it was noticeable, and enough to make me uncomfortable. And I was only traveling around as a tourist, so I tried and for the most part succeeded in ignoring it, but maybe it wouldn't have been so easy if I was facing it everyday for a prolonged period of time.

So, those are two separate issues. A country shouldn't be blamed for failed individuals. It depends on the country, of course, but most western countries care about the people. That doesn't mean that countries shouldn't try ever harder to help integrate people into society.

The problem makers are young and born here. As youngsters, they'll have faced discrimination for being young. This has happened in every society in history, and is why older societies make much of the coming of age when they can start becoming useful members of society. Within their age group, they'll have faced discrimination because, well, kids are arseholes who will pick on anyone and everyone. Other than that, unless they impose their differentness on other people, they would likely have faced no more than reasonable discrimination that is the hallmark of an individual-based society (oxymoronic though that term is). Their parents, who were more alien to the host culture, don't feel unreasonably discriminated against. Why are they, the second generation, complaining about that to the point of turning against their home country? And why should we feel any guilt about it? After all, we didn't fail their parents.

[Beskar]

Long-standing ORG rules against hotlinking are that all posted images must be off your own bandwidth, whether the forum-provided attachment space or some third-party hosting site.

Seriously ive been posting these images for years, several of them beskar thanked. It's never come up.

The biggest reason for the rule was because when bandwidth was a premium for website hosting, if you hot-linked a picture, they used to re-direct it to explicit material to discourage you. So lets say GB posted a harmless picture about bunnies and hot-linked it, he would see the bunnies do the saved local copy in his cache, but us who didn't see it on the source site would see your worse nightmare in explicit poses.

That said, Mont is correct that imgur.com is the recommended website for linking to pictures from (which I use myself). It does get enforced from time-to-time, but usually only because it comes up with things like "STOP HOTLINKING US" picture, or the above.

[Tuuvi]

There would be no racism is we were all Latin-speaking Romans.

Construction of national identity around physical similarities is a relatively modern phenomenon - language and religion are the more historical markers of a particular "people".

Yea as far as I know, our modern concept of race was constructed during the colonial era as a justification for the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

[Husar]

"Anglo" is an offensive term that whitewashes English diversity and its ancient history.

Good.

[Greyblades]

So what do you think did more damage: the event or the attempts at downplaying/covering up?

[Husar]

So what do you think did more damage: the event or the attempts at downplaying/covering up?

Damage to whom or what? And how does one measure the amount of damage? In Euros, in persons or in political influence of people, parties or groups? And why would this be important? Do I need to choose a wrong? The German public had a lot of criticism for both.

[Greyblades]

Ah, sorry, I used "damage" as a euphamism for outcry. Which peeved off the german people/media more?

[Fragony]

Looks like the Germans will have to pay extra for gassoline because of the messias-complex of the childless mutti. Yeah it costs money quelle surprise mon dieux brrrr wir brrr schaffen das

[Husar]

Looks like the Germans will have to pay extra for gassoline because of the messias-complex of the childless mutti. Yeah it costs money quelle surprise mon dieux brrrr wir brrr schaffen das

That is wrong on several levels:

1) "Looks like" suggests that it is almost certain, it was so far just an idea that was immediately criticized by a lot of people.
2) You suggest Merkel is to blame but the idea came from our minister of finance Wolfgang Schäuble. He has crazy ideas once in a while.
3) Ahahaha, Germans? He suggested an EU-wide tax on gasoline...

[Husar]

Ah, sorry, I used "damage" as a euphamism for outcry. Which peeved off the german people/media more?

I think the act itself, but the police chief of Cologne has already stepped down for downplaying it IIRC.
I suppose people are more concerned about actually getting hurt than about politicians who lie.

[Viking]

That might be feasible if the conflict in their home countries could be reasonably said to be over soon. Keeping people in "temporary" camps for 5+ years may not be the best idea however.

That's why we could also buy citizenship for the migrants in other countries and deport them there. That way, the camps could be depleted gradually.

If that doesn't work out, we can make the peace in their home country instead of waiting for it, and then deport. Repeat as necessary, until they realise they shouldn't be fighting each other.

Well, with proper integration, fewer of them may turn into criminals in the first place.

That "proper integration" may itself be impossible was my initial point.

At the moment they're not allowed to do anything for several months after arrival, unemployment etc. can drive people crazy, especially if it made them go on a crazy journey in the first place in the hopes of getting a job. One idea I liked was that they will be instructed upon arrival that the German courses are mandatory, that they have to take care of their homes here, including cleaning the toilets etc. and are required to do certain community work in return for the shelter etc. they receive here. Failure to comply would lead to a swift deportation.

Many or most jihadists and terrorists from the West were born with Western citizenship, they didn't have to wait for anything.

[Montmorency]

we can make the peace in their home country instead of waiting for it

UN occupation is a pleasing idea in theory. While we're at it, can we please exchange Eastern Ukraine for Neo-Prussia? We shouldn't tolerate that sore thumb on the Baltic anymore.

[Fragony]

I think the act itself, but the police chief of Cologne has already stepped down for downplaying it IIRC.
I suppose people are more concerned about actually getting hurt than about politicians who lie.

Shit never flows down except in toilets. It's the childless mother who's responsible.

Wir schaffen das, yeah.

Dumb face holding two dead eyes.

[Montmorency]

Shit never flows down except in toilets. It's the childless mother who's responsible.

Wir schaffen das, yeah.

Dumb face holding two dead eyes.

I liked it better when you blamed the menagerie.

[Fragony]

I liked it better when you blamed the menagerie.

I don't know what menagerie means, new word for me. First time I type it just now

edit, a collection of animals to to be showed to the public says internet. I could go for that really and get stranded so I won't just dismiss it outright as it being an invalid accusation/suggestion, but I would like something a little more substantial to respond to. And not in a longwinded post, tree sentences are enough to make a point if you have one.

[Montmorency]

noun
1.
a collection of wild or unusual animals, especially for exhibition.
2.
a place where they are kept or exhibited.
3.
an unusual and varied group of people.^dict

You know, the stories about the ferrets and owls and waiters - almost like a fairytale!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Fragony]

noun
1.
a collection of wild or unusual animals, especially for exhibition.
2.
a place where they are kept or exhibited.
3.
an unusual and varied group of people.^dict

You know, the stories about the ferrets and owls and waiters - almost like a fairytale!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Don't bother I already looked it up, I am not good at English and you shouldn't expect me to be as I am not English, I am Dutch. I don't ask you to explain what you mean in English when it comes to language, I ask what you are implying

[Fragony]

That is wrong on several levels:

1) "Looks like" suggests that it is almost certain, it was so far just an idea that was immediately criticized by a lot of people.
2) You suggest Merkel is to blame but the idea came from our minister of finance Wolfgang Schäuble. He has crazy ideas once in a while.
3) Ahahaha, Germans? He suggested an EU-wide tax on gasoline...

The open visitation of the childles mutti to have all little childrsn coms to her is absolutily to blame. Germany as a whole is beause they allowed someone who is clearly relgiously insane to be pllaying with buttons. All established respect is lost, and I thank the childless mutti for that as I hate everything the EU stands for.

[Montmorency]

What does the EU stand for?

[Fragony]

What does the EU stand for?

A fourth reich, Forget it, not gonna happen. It's not just about trade anymore it's a very expensive meddling overhead that only serrves to make sure Juncker gets his cognac with his breakfast. We can do just fine without the EU we don't need it. Eurocrats keep screaming Europe but Europe isn't the same thing as the EU. They have no argument.

[Gilrandir]

Apposition involves two separate units with a coreferent.

This! And the referent for both is the SAME PERSON THEY DENOTE! So "poet Burns" identifies the person by his name and his occupation. In "Chancellor Merkel" - by position and name. In "Ms Merkel" - by (wrong) marital status and name.

And you never ascribed a syntactic function to what you deny in being an apposition.

There would be no racism is we were all Latin-speaking Romans.

Did they treat all people the same irrespectively of their skin color and nationality?

[Gilrandir]

It depends on the country, of course, but most western countries care about the people.

And people are expected (and in most cases they do) to answer in kind. But you defend the same attitude to those who abide by rules and laws and those who don't.

2) You suggest Merkel is to blame but the idea came from our minister of finance Wolfgang Schäuble. He has crazy ideas once in a while.

Isn't she responsible for hiring him? If she still has him on her team she supports him, huh?

[Montmorency]

In "Ms Merkel" - by (wrong) marital status and name.

"Ms." is not the same reference as either "Merkel" or "Ms. Merkel" unless used as a vocative. However, "Ms. Merkel" does have the same referent as "Merkel", either alone or attached to any other title...

What you are saying would have "the poet" as an appositive phrase in which "the" identifies the person by their - something - and "poet" identifies status of poet . And this way, you would overload "the" with so much meaning as to denote literally everything real simultaneously. In the same vein, "That stupid Merkel says wir schaffen das" would then involve apposition between "stupid" [the stupidity of Merkel] and "Merkel" [the Merkel of Merkel].

What you do would collapse language by draining all nouns of meaning and placing that meaning with noun modifiers and functional elements.

I think the logical conclusion of this discussion is that you are an extraterrestrial and have failed in your mission to surveil hoomans by making a telltale slip. In the words of our God-Emperor:

an immigrant leaves his problems behind, a colonist takes it along.

And you never ascribed a syntactic function to what you deny in being an apposition.

For phrases like "Ms. Smith" or "Chancellor Merkel", there is no apposition since both the title and the name are mutually-necessary in combining to form a single unit, rather than two distinct ones. This is the case for any title that is not an actual position or status, but purely a form of address.

Such honorifics can only be involved in apposition indirectly:

1a. I would like to introduce the (German) Chancellor, (Chancellor) Merkel, as the speaker tonight.
2a. I would like to introduce a very important lady, (Ms./Mrs./Dr./Chancellor) Merkel, as the speaker tonight.

The two underlined parts are both in apposition to "(Chancellor) Merkel", and you can include or exclude the title next to "Merkel" as you like, but you cannot by definition create an appositive relationship between "Merkel" and the bolded title thus. Notably, in Sentence 1a "Chancellor" can be involved in apposition in to "Merkel", but only in the instance where it is part of the distinct unit "the (German) Chancellor", and not when it is forming a unit with "Merkel".

Also, if someone is addressed with multiple titles, like "His Majesty King of Swatesia, Lord of all Elephants, Conqueror of the Aphorites...", then the titles can be described as in apposition to each other.

The point is basically that it is not possible for a title standing alone to be in apposition to a name in a format like "TITLE-ENTITLED", because this format creates a single identifying unit and for apposition you need two distinct identifying units with, as per Wiki, "one element serving to identify the other in a different way".

[Papewaio]

This! And the referent for both is the SAME PERSON THEY DENOTE! So "poet Burns" identifies the person by his name and his occupation. In "Chancellor Merkel" - by position and name. In "Ms Merkel" - by (wrong) marital status and name.

And you never ascribed a syntactic function to what you deny in being an apposition.

Did they treat all people the same irrespectively of their skin color and nationality?

Actually in the west their has been a feminist initiative to use Ms as equivalent as Mr. So it is used regardless of marital status in a lot of social interactions.