IMMIGRATION thread

[Husar]

Doesn't matter. Wherever it is - just ship'em back.

How do you determine where to ship them to? And again, what if that country claims they cannot be returned because they are not citizens of that country? What if they come from the caliphate? Ship them to the caliphate?

Many places in Europe has had a near-static ethnic composition for more than a thousand years.

So did many places in America, people tend to get over it (or are allowed to live in reservations).

This claim appears to be directly odds with the ratio of Islamist terrorists with European citizenship to those without. The attacks are coming from within, not outside countries.

Then why are outside people supposedly the problem?

Look after the women and children as though they are natives. Train the men as an army, under European officers, to fight ISIS. If we can't trust them with heavy weapons, then train them as light infantry with European forces providing heavy lifting. Those who aren't suitable for fighting as front line infantry can work in the logistical tail instead. Those who won't work towards this should be interned until such a time as they can be deported back to Syria. Those who distinguish themselves can be offered EU citizenship, distributed between the EU countries.

A lot of them are apparently fleeing from potential army service or from getting recruited by terrorist organizations, what should they do? Stay there and join the terrorists because they have to fight anyway?

On the one hand we claim they're all way too violent for our culture and then we suggest to turn the peaceful ones into killers?

[Pannonian]

A lot of them are apparently fleeing from potential army service or from getting recruited by terrorist organizations, what should they do? Stay there and join the terrorists because they have to fight anyway?

On the one hand we claim they're all way too violent for our culture and then we suggest to turn the peaceful ones into killers?

Look after the women and children as though they are natives. Train the men as an army, under European officers, to fight ISIS. If we can't trust them with heavy weapons, then train them as light infantry with European forces providing heavy lifting. Those who aren't suitable for fighting as front line infantry can work in the logistical tail instead. Those who won't work towards this should be interned until such a time as they can be deported back to Syria. Those who distinguish themselves can be offered EU citizenship, distributed between the EU countries.

Modern armies have long tails, along the ratio of 9 in the rear to 1 at the front (from what I can remember of WWII numbers). If they're unwilling to be killers in the service of the EU, there is that route, although I'd disqualify them from any chance of qualifying for EU citizenship. That is still working towards their own liberation, within an EU project. If they're unwilling to do even that, then why should we provide them with any succour? As seen in the current situation, if EU countries lack teeth, there is no incentive to do what they request. People who have no permission to be here, and where we don't have a stable state to deal with, will do whatever they want.

[Husar]

Modern armies have long tails, along the ratio of 9 in the rear to 1 at the front (from what I can remember of WWII numbers). If they're unwilling to be killers in the service of the EU, there is that route, although I'd disqualify them from any chance of qualifying for EU citizenship. That is still working towards their own liberation, within an EU project. If they're unwilling to do even that, then why should we provide them with any succour? As seen in the current situation, if EU countries lack teeth, there is no incentive to do what they request. People who have no permission to be here, and where we don't have a stable state to deal with, will do whatever they want.

So we're just saying that all of them will be criminals if we do not indoctrinate them and let everyone from an unstable nation fight against ISIS even if they're not from that area? Or will there be an army for each country that is unstable and has refugees arriving here?

[Pannonian]

So we're just saying that all of them will be criminals if we do not indoctrinate them and let everyone from an unstable nation fight against ISIS even if they're not from that area? Or will there be an army for each country that is unstable and has refugees arriving here?

This is what I'm talking about when I refer to bleeding heart liberals and the ingrainment of liberal values in our society. The latter is good, within reason. But not when it's done by the former, who lay the blame for everything on the majority culture, and who will excuse each and every infringement by the minority, using legalistic arguments to fuzz what should be abundantly clear to anyone who takes a step back to see the whole picture.

And here is the invocation of liberal values by bleeding heart liberals that I was talking about. Nothing about how to solve the problem of hundreds of thousands of people who have already proven to be problematic socially and more immediately a shield for terrorists, but instead, all the effort is aimed at putting the blame on the host countries. Disguised, of course, as a complete misconstruing of what anyone says that doesn't fit the narrative of the west is bad.

Oh well, the Syrians are in Germany and elsewhere on the mainland, not in Britain. Britain is better able than most to control its borders unilaterally, so if you don't want to use them thus, you can deal with them in whatever way you want. As long as we're not taking them. I won't shed a tear if they decide to stay in Germany indefinitely, because the likes of yourself are uncomfortable with making them go back.

[Husar]

And here is the invocation of liberal values by bleeding heart liberals that I was talking about. Nothing about how to solve the problem of hundreds of thousands of people who have already proven to be problematic socially and more immediately a shield for terrorists, but instead, all the effort is aimed at putting the blame on the host countries. Disguised, of course, as a complete misconstruing of what anyone says that doesn't fit the narrative of the west is bad.

What? Where are these hundreds of thousands of people and how have they proven to be problematic? Is it already problematic to be a muslim or wear a headscarf? And you're also miscontruing what I said, I wasn't asking you to blame us, I was saying we may have to be blamed IF we implement what you suggest because I see some problems with your suggestion. Instead of having a serious discussion about possible problems you cry that I want you to hate yourself, which is complete nonsense.

[Pannonian]

What? Where are these hundreds of thousands of people and how have they proven to be problematic? Is it already problematic to be a muslim or wear a headscarf? And you're also miscontruing what I said, I wasn't asking you to blame us, I was saying we may have to be blamed IF we implement what you suggest because I see some problems with your suggestion. Instead of having a serious discussion about possible problems you cry that I want you to hate yourself, which is complete nonsense.

Mea culpa then. Let the status quo continue indefinitely, to our satisfaction.

[Husar]

Mea culpa then. Let the status quo continue indefinitely, to our satisfaction.

No, we obviously need to tighten some laws and get rid of people who hate us, I'm absolutely with you on that one, I just think they need to be judged on a more individual basis (maybe with the exception of say, being a proven member of a mafia group). I'm in favor of helping those who can behave and sentencing those who can't to either prison or extradition. The current problem are inadequate laws and a lack of enforcement and police capacity, at least in Germany. It is absolutely possible that politicians are/were too lax as Fragony says it regarding the enforcement of laws or actually doing something about crimes committed by immigrants. The same id true about nazi crimes here as the Sauerland group showed. I'm not saying we are responsible for what these people do, but we are responsible for protecting ourselves from these people. I am against solutions that target entire populations for the mistakes of a minority among them.

[Snowhobbit]

So we're just saying that all of them will be criminals if we do not indoctrinate them and let everyone from an unstable nation fight against ISIS even if they're not from that area? Or will there be an army for each country that is unstable and has refugees arriving here?

I think that particular argument hinges on the fallacy that most of the "refugees" are from Syria. Quite a few from Bosnia, Kosovo, Serbia arrived in Germany last year :D

[Gilrandir]

How do you determine where to ship them to? And again, what if that country claims they cannot be returned because they are not citizens of that country? What if they come from the caliphate? Ship them to the caliphate?

They come by way of Turkey, so ship'em back there. And even better if landing is prevented. The coastal waters must be patrolled and whenever a boat with immigrants reaches Greece's waters the patrols should check permits for crossing the border, and if there are no - tow them back.

[Gilrandir]

Happy Grounhog Day, Germany:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-subway.html

[Montmorency]

Happy Grounhog Day, Germany:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-subway.html

Ethnic Germans and what appear to be North Africans in a physical altercation with a guy in a brown jacket (who appears to be Iranian or South Asian), another North African (Gray Jacket) arguing with and slapping the hand of one of the North Africans (Blue Jacket/Grey Hat) who was standing by, then that man (Grey Hat) and one more North African (Blue Jacket/No Hat), who had participated in subduing Brown Jacket, motioning and pointing at the cameraman or something behind him.

I'm not confident about the identifications of "North African", but the central focus of the video - the man in the brown jacket - is definitely of Iranian/South Asian extraction.

Seems like a lot going on in that video, actually.

[Myth]

Happy Grounhog Day, Germany:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-subway.html

The racist elderly germans should be prosecuted for racism and publicly shamed via media. They are also neo-nazis. Tomorrow's news: Nazism on the rise in Germany!

[Viking]

Do people not realise that 'immigrants' are actually people?

Criminals are people, too; yet we lock them up in prisons for years. It's not a 'realisation' that is particularly relevant in this context.

Another disconnected generalization without regard for causality. Generally speaking, the old have been far too infirm and far too few in number to even constitute a distinct demographic in the first place.

If you want anecdotes, look to the readiness of "senior citizens" to march and gather in protest in the United States and Japan on conservative planks and for self-advocacy.

I'd also add that the young may be more impulsive, and that they presumably have more hormones raging in their blood.

[Beskar]

Criminals are people, too; yet we lock them up in prisons for years. It's not a 'realisation' that is particularly relevant in this context.

Justice system works on a principle of reforming offenders and separating those who are proven dangerous to society from society.

It is not about locking people up just because they are from a different country.

[Viking]

Justice system works on a principle of reforming offenders and separating those who are proven dangerous to society from society.

It is not about locking people up just because they are from a different country.

No one would be locked up for being from a different country. The rationale for the internment camps has already been provided.

[Beskar]

No one would be locked up for being from a different country. The rationale for the internment camps has already been provided.

Been provided a few times in history, I don't agree with your solution to the refugee problem.

[Pannonian]

Been provided a few times in history, I don't agree with your solution to the refugee problem.

There aren't any refugees, and there certainly isn't a refugee problem. Husar says so. We can just carry on as normal.