IMMIGRATION thread

[Greyblades]

The facts proved otherwise. Investigations into the smuggling operations in Turkey showed that refugees were often tasked with helping smugglers sign up passengers for smuggling trips. Their language skills and contacts inside refugee communities made them ideal as middlemen. It was also not uncommon for one of the passengers to be given the responsibility of driving the boat. No smuggler, with family in Turkey and a steady income from the lucrative smuggling trade, would want to end up illegally in Europe and risk not being able to return home, where he would be likely to face arrest anyway.

Where's this quote from?

[Husar]

A more pertinent question is, do these supposedly inherent western values and rights override border controls?

Inherent? People died fighting for some of them. We pride ourselves on not discriminating on gender because it's not the womens' fault that they are physically weaker, but god beware if you were born on the wrong side of an imaginary line, then we'd rather watch you starve on the other side of that line than offer you a tent on our side. I simply think that this is a very strange world view that focuses so much on imaginary lines that people drew with a lot of greed and hatred in many, many wars. And before people drew such lines they believed that the bloodlines or tribes or whatever were the only way to divide them from their neighbors, that view turned out to be wrong. Yes, the romans, Greeks and a few others had different ideas long before that, but especially the Romans, which PVC likes so much, were apparently not afraid to have all kinds of different people within their borders as long as they followed certain laws, no?

In your view they probably do, since earlier you favoured forcibly imposing refugees/migrants on the UK, even though our existing agreements guarantee our borders. And also, you'd blamed the lack of policing of these refugees/migrants on Merkel being elected, with her policies of drawing down the police. Even though no one outside Germany had anything to do with electing Merkel.

I'd actually favor if "UK" were just an administrative region of a properly established democratic EU where we'd all get along, but that's a different topic and a pipe dream at this point. What I'm not sure about is what the lack of policing in Germany has to do with forcing immigrants on other countries. I also wouldn't say we should force them on other countries, I'm saying other countries may be very nasty countries for refusing to take them, it's a moral argument, yes. Poland for example is far worse than the UK though, the UK already has a huge amount of relatively recent immigrants.

In short, does Germany have the right to impose its views on the rest of Europe, as you've seemed to suggest? If the German people decide something is right, is it up to the rest of Europe to help pay the bill?

Again, much less imposing, more pointing out what I perceive as hypocrisy. Poland likes to whine that the UK didn't help it in the big wars or that Germany wants to have a pipeline around it so that Russia can screw Poland over more easily etc. but now it tells Syrians to go starve at the fence because Poland does not want to help them. Well, if you prefer a world where each nation minds its own business and only looks for its own benefit, don't whine about other nations doing it, too. And in that sense, why do you cry about Germany wanting to dominate Europe? Maybe it is our best interest and that's all that should matter to me? Why should I care the least bit about your concerns then? I'll just hope you'll be ruled by us soon for my own interests/benefit. Or do you believe all nation states can look for their own best interests without any collisions or harming the interests of other nations?

Everything will be ok if we pray more. Face it Husar Merkel is no longer sane.

I'm not entirely sure where this insanity stuff is from, maybe your bar for declaring people insane is incredibly low. You're free to disagree with her though.

Where's this quote from?

The Guardian article in post #1786.

[Fragony]

@hussie, she is rumoured to be very off lately, also within her own party. She supposedly accepts no critism at all anymore from even her inner circles. Her eyes do look empty and she looks confused and bitter.

[Husar]

@hussie, she is rumoured to be very off lately, also within her own party. She supposedly accepts no critism at all anymore from even her inner circles. Her eyes do look empty and she looks confused and bitter.

Says who?

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/a...erin-1.2862286

This article from.....eh.....today(!) says everyone around her claims she is behaving as always and that she has a whole lot of work to do.
The only thing is that she apparently doesn't sleep well at times because she is thinking about the refugee crisis.
Either way, makes me wonder why we have a parliament if she decides everything anyway.

[Fragony]

Why do tney have to insist that she is behaving as always?

[Husar]

Why do tney have to insist that she is behaving as always?

It says the reporter asked them how she was doing with all that work she has on her plate.
I suppose they answered the question like, you know, many people do when asked a question.

[Fragony]

It says the reporter asked them how she was doing with all that work she has on her plate.
I suppose they answered the question like, you know, many people do when asked a question.

And why would he ask the question if people weren't wondering if she's still 'the same'. I fully believe she don't sleep very well, probably muttering 'aber... wir...schaffen...das...' with an icebag on her forehead. The childless mutti has losst most if not all crediblty in the schengen-zone

[Gilrandir]

Yes, the romans, Greeks and a few others had different ideas long before that, but especially the Romans, which PVC likes so much, were apparently not afraid to have all kinds of different people within their borders as long as they followed certain laws, no?

Perhaps it was one of the reasons that brought Roman empire down?

[Husar]

Perhaps it was one of the reasons that brought Roman empire down?

Perhaps it wasn't?

[Fragony]

Perhaps it wasn't?

It wasn't, Roman empire never falled, 'barbarian invasion' is much more complicated than that. But that has little to do with the childless mutti's little children who she empty-eyed invited with a dumb smile on her face. Now that she can't schaff that after all she wants to other member-states to take it of her plumb shoulders. They aren't going to, they can see her detoriating mental-health. Childless women do strange things when they get older. Merkel reminds me the (excellent) movie Downfall, or Untergang in German. Completly irrational. Yoda voice: get rid of her, gently escort her to a mental-institution, you must

[Gilrandir]

It wasn't, Roman empire never falled, 'barbarian invasion' is much more complicated than that.

That's what I meant. Internal weakness coupled with attacks from outside. But internal weakness was caused by different factors, heterogeneous populace was one of them.

[Fragony]

That's what I meant. Internal weakness coupled with attacks from outside. But internal weakness was caused by different factors, heterogeneous populace was one of them.

Parallels are always risky, you end up urguing with yourself. Current situation is new, never so much, never so fast. You make yourself a really easy target if you draw comparisons withthe Roman Empire, very tempting to do but a first year student is going to destroy any argument