IMMIGRATION thread

[Greyblades]

I love you guys. About 90% of you fall under entitled brats with no clue about life.

Says the one advocating for entitlements for brats with no clue about european life.

[Kralizec]

Attachment 17563

Mother Europe is in danger. Unwashed brown barbarians are coming...

I love you guys. About 90% of you fall under entitled brats with no clue about life. And 2/3 of those 90% are bigots and chauvinists.

You picked a Polish magazine cover to make your point. Need I say more? Poland, as well as Hungary, is run by politicians that make the Marseille branch of the Front National look like bleeding heart liberals.

Maybe the public opinion in Serbia is more positive about foreigners? So far Serbia's role seems to be limited to providing cab and bus transport for those en route to Germany, anyway.

[Brenus]

"Atheists are free to disagree I guess." Only about the bases of your sentence. I don't need a big man on a cloud to be human.
I shall pass on the French comment that shows how much clues our USA friend has in understanding France, so to say Europe. As much as I know, all countries have de facto laws on clothing, under various reasons i.e. decency, safety, and all the catalogue.

So is it Europe responsibility? Some could say that with economical treaties imposed to others countries Europe is creating the economical refugees, with the civilisation and capitalistic mode based on consumption Europe creates the conditions of climate changes which will put populations on move, due to desertification, droughts, raising of seas levels etc... How many flooding in Bangladesh before the inhabitants decide that too much is too much.
We do as well attack a lot of others countries, deciding for them how to behave, then creating all the conditions for warlords to come and to put populations in the move.

So, no, it is not Europe responsibility to welcome refugees. It is Europe responsibility to stop its participation in creating refugees.

[Snowhobbit]

Attachment 17563

Mother Europe is in danger. Unwashed brown barbarians are coming...

I love you guys. About 90% of you fall under entitled brats with no clue about life. And 2/3 of those 90% are bigots and chauvinists.

Dang it, I was unaware that we were all collectively the editor of that magazine. Did you bother to read the posts at all?

[Sarmatian]

Oh, well now I'm convinced.

This is all the left has, shame tactics.

It wasn't supposed to convince you.

And what were you right about?

Maybe the public opinion in Serbia is more positive about foreigners? So far Serbia's role seems to be limited to providing cab and bus transport for those en route to Germany, anyway.

Nah. We tend to butcher those guys with rusty spoons anyway. Did we ever get a thanks for it? No.

Actually, there are still a few guys right there in Netherlands who are very good at it. If sending the refugees back is too big a problem, just let those guys loose. They'll take care of everything.

[Pannonian]

"Atheists are free to disagree I guess." Only about the bases of your sentence. I don't need a big man on a cloud to be human.
I shall pass on the French comment that shows how much clues our USA friend has in understanding France, so to say Europe. As much as I know, all countries have de facto laws on clothing, under various reasons i.e. decency, safety, and all the catalogue.

So is it Europe responsibility? Some could say that with economical treaties imposed to others countries Europe is creating the economical refugees, with the civilisation and capitalistic mode based on consumption Europe creates the conditions of climate changes which will put populations on move, due to desertification, droughts, raising of seas levels etc... How many flooding in Bangladesh before the inhabitants decide that too much is too much.
We do as well attack a lot of others countries, deciding for them how to behave, then creating all the conditions for warlords to come and to put populations in the move.

So, no, it is not Europe responsibility to welcome refugees. It is Europe responsibility to stop its participation in creating refugees.

Isolationism is the way to go, except where it's necessary to trade for resources. Apart from oil, I want absolutely nothing to do with the Muslim countries. They can have the country they want without interference from us, and we should stamp on any interference from them.

[Kralizec]

….

I’ll clarify that I think legitimate refugees do deserve shelter. The problem isn't really the number of Syrians or Eritreans coming here. The real problem lies with the people who have no justifiable reason for trying to claim asylum, but try to cheat the system.

At the same time, the fact that a person has fled his home country because of war or repression shouldn’t give him an unqualified right to settle wherever he pleases. Ideally Europe and Turkey would come to an understanding about:
- improving the conditions of refugee camps in Turkey
- cutting off the smuggling routes to Europe
- resettlement of a fixed number of confirmed refugees from Turkey, and maybe from Jordan
- distributing these refugees fairly across Europe (and that includes less wealthy countries like Poland, which would not be the first choice of most refugees)

[wooly_mammoth]

^To the above I would add an obligation for the refugees to integrate in the country in which they are settled, i.e. respect the local laws and customs, learn the local language, get a job or stick to whatever the integration services find for them, send their children to school. People who fail the above points should get a one-way ticket back to whatever miserable place they ran from and be banned from ever entering the E.U. again.

[Gilrandir]

Since the UK (and Ireland) aren't part of Schengen, we still have our border controls.

Thank the Channel for it, not your border control.

Atheists are free to disagree I guess.

Americans won't, because in God they trust.

….
Ideally Europe and Turkey would come to an understanding about:
- improving the conditions of refugee camps in Turkey
- cutting off the smuggling routes to Europe
- resettlement of a fixed number of confirmed refugees from Turkey, and maybe from Jordan

This. And I would add one more:
- redirecting the immigration torrents to the closer countries (both geographically and culturally/confessionally).

[Gilrandir]

Simply because a mentally deranged German chancellor who is known to have a messias-complex invited them.

I guess it is time to go for one more meme:
It is February the 20th and Merkel is still a mentally deranged childless mutti with a messiah complex.

[Fragony]

Nice to hear, Interpol estimates 3000 to 5000 jihadists, and that are just the returnees who got training there. Why they are allowed to come back is beyond me but alas. There are of course many more among the refugees.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Nice to hear, Interpol estimates 3000 to 5000 jihadists, and that are just the returnees who got training there. Why they are allowed to come back is beyond me but alas. There are of course many more among the refugees.

Of course? Do you have any evidence for this statement, or is it just...a baseless belief?

[Fragony]

Of course? Do you have any evidence for this statement, or is it just...a baseless belief?

Of course I don't it's Interpol who says it not me http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...in-Europe.html

[Sarmatian]

Nice to hear, Interpol estimates 3000 to 5000 jihadists, and that are just the returnees who got training there. Why they are allowed to come back is beyond me but alas. There are of course many more among the refugees.

No, Interpol estimates that there "could be up to 5000" of them in Europe.

While a few lines down there's this info

There is no concrete evidence terrorists are systematically using of the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe

[Pannonian]

^To the above I would add an obligation for the refugees to integrate in the country in which they are settled, i.e. respect the local laws and customs, learn the local language, get a job or stick to whatever the integration services find for them, send their children to school. People who fail the above points should get a one-way ticket back to whatever miserable place they ran from and be banned from ever entering the E.U. again.

Hang on. Doesn't this infringe the human rights of these refugees/migrants to travel to wherever they wish?

[Sarmatian]

Hang on. Doesn't this infringe the human rights of these refugees/migrants to travel to wherever they wish?

It doesn't have to if it is an agreement. You wanna stay, you've gotta accept those terms for a defined period of time.

We all have guaranteed freedom of movement, but that doesn't forbid our employers to keep us at our workplace for 8 hours a day.

[Husar]

Actually it's Europol, not Interpol, just saying.

[Fragony]

No, Interpol estimates that there "could be up to 5000" of them in Europe.

While a few lines down there's this info

Left it open-ended enough

[Gilrandir]

While a few lines down there's this info
There is no concrete evidence terrorists are systematically using of the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe

They come to Europe by the backdoor - through the German parliament:
http://www.dw.com/en/ex-terrorist-be...poll/a-2510817

[wooly_mammoth]

Hang on. Doesn't this infringe the human rights of these refugees/migrants to travel to wherever they wish?

As far as I know every country in the world has the right to deny entrance to foreigners deemed undesirable for reasons like terrorist activities. If you want to travel to a country that requires a visa and they have a half-decent secret service, if they discover you were taking courses on how to detonate yourself in crowded places back in your youth, that's constitutes a pretty strong reason to deny your request.

Something like that should clearly be extended to asylum-seekers. The country where you are seeking refuge is making you a favor and giving you a chance at a better life, helping you integrate in a better society than the one you left behind on the expense of the people living there. If you cannot respect that and the responsibilities it implies and you go around harassing the locals, molesting women and other such horrible things, then there's no reason in the world why you shouldn't be kicked out and banned from ever entering again in that country. If the country happens to be in the EU, where there's a broad range of customs and laws shared among the member states, there's no reason not to make the interdiction EU-wide. No need to exhibit your primitive limitations in front of others yet again, with the same result.

[Fragony]

They come to Europe by the backdoor - through the German parliament:
http://www.dw.com/en/ex-terrorist-be...poll/a-2510817

Red Army Fraction, caused a lot of trouble in Germany. Some are still active in the antifacist(lol) movements. Different thing though. But it's incredibly naive to think IS wouldn't cease the oppertunity of letting jihadi's travel among the migrants. A fake identity can easily be bought in Turkey, costs a few thousands to get a fake ID that is a perfect copy of a real one. Refugees don't have the money for that but IS does. The Turkish maffa and IS don't make a secret out of it that it works that way.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Red Army Fraction, caused a lot of trouble in Germany. Some are still active in the antifacist(lol) movements. Different thing though. But it's incredibly naive to think IS wouldn't cease the oppertunity of letting jihadi's travel among the migrants. A fake identity can easily be bought in Turkey, costs a few thousands to get a fake ID that is a perfect copy of a real one. Refugees don't have the money for that but IS does. The Turkish maffa and IS don't make a secret out of it that it works that way.

...which is all just conjecture. Let's just ignore that the terrorists in Paris, for example, were EU citizens - ie there is no evidence AT ALL that terrorists are sneaking in among the refugees.

I do wonder what purpose EUROPOL thought there was in issuing a statement regarding how many numbers of terrorists MIGHT be entering Europe...without any evidence at all....doesn't sound like particularly competent police work. In fact it sounds a lot like simple 'racial profiling'...

[Fragony]

...which is all just conjecture. Let's just ignore that the terrorists in Paris, for example, were EU citizens - ie there is no evidence AT ALL that terrorists are sneaking in among the refugees.

I do wonder what purpose EUROPOL thought there was in issuing a statement regarding how many numbers of terrorists MIGHT be entering Europe...without any evidence at all....doesn't sound like particularly competent police work. In fact it sounds a lot like simple 'racial profiling'...

True, there is no there evidence at all. (sidenote, believe me it's true, you will just have to take my word for it, I got no links, no sources, but I do know people who live there.)

[Snowhobbit]

...which is all just conjecture. Let's just ignore that the terrorists in Paris, for example, were EU citizens - ie there is no evidence AT ALL that terrorists are sneaking in among the refugees.

I do wonder what purpose EUROPOL thought there was in issuing a statement regarding how many numbers of terrorists MIGHT be entering Europe...without any evidence at all....doesn't sound like particularly competent police work. In fact it sounds a lot like simple 'racial profiling'...

While it is true that they were mostly (or all?) citizens of European countries, they also gained access and entry to Europe by hiding amongst the stream of refugees. Or should we ignore the passport that was registered as entering Greece as a refugee last summer being connected to the perps?

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

While it is true that they were mostly (or all?) citizens of European countries, they also gained access and entry to Europe by hiding amongst the stream of refugees. Or should we ignore the passport that was registered as entering Greece as a refugee last summer being connected to the perps?

You mean that passport that had nothing to do with the terrorists? That one? The thing is, French intelligence have stated they were watching this cell and knew they had returned to Europe from Syria (so...not by sneaking in with refugees...otherwise EUROPOL would have evidence, wouldn't they.)...and then 'lost' them.

You know...it's so easy to get people to believe something...just write it as a headline story. Doesn't matter if the story is later shown to have no truth to it....it'll always be the thing that people remember. Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well....

[wooly_mammoth]

Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants.

[Fragony]

Grab not their breasts and church your evil faith, but thank the builder for the trials that shape thee..

disclaimer, only a few will get this

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants.

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

[Fragony]

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

Wny need evidence. One must assume that someone acts reationaly. Methods might seem irrational, at first, but the purpose isn't. Our enemies are not dumb.

[Sarmatian]

Wny need evidence.

Exactly!