IMMIGRATION thread

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

While it is nice of you to try to twist the argument, do note that he used the word "immigrant" and not refugee. Now of course I am sure you will explain how all of those North African men are native Germans :).

But it is you who twisted the argument then, isn't it? You didn't correct the misapprehension by making clear that there is a distinction between immigrants and regugees, you simply transplanted the word immigrant for refugee. Given the context of the discussion that is, frankly, disingenuous.

[Snowhobbit]

But it is you who twisted the argument then, isn't it? You didn't correct the misapprehension by making clear that there is a distinction between immigrants and regugees, you simply transplanted the word immigrant for refugee. Given the context of the discussion that is, frankly, disingenuous.

No, you are the person who transplanted one word meaning one thing with another. I agree that is a very disingenuous way of arguing, but hey that is how you argue so I'm not sure why you are telling me. Do you not read what people post when you respond to them?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...di-backgrounds

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...e-failure.html

Al EU residents, all known. Tell me, given that they have legitimate EU passports....why would any of them be trying to use a false passport? And why would they take it with them on a terror attack, and leave it in a, presumably, loose pocket so that it could fall out?

Yes, what reason could they have for wanting to enter the country without the intelligence services knowing that they have? Maybe they planned to attack certain public places and didn't want to get stopped?

Obviously there was an intelligence failure that lead to the successful attack, same as how the shoot-out a few days later was in contrast successful. Do note btw that your articles do not claim what you say about the French intelligence forces knowing that he had come back to France. Of course they knew that these people were radicals, there are thousands of them on the list of radicals. But because I put a name on a list does not mean I know the whereabouts of that person. If they had returned using their own passports, then it would have been known and they would have been monitored.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

No, you are the person who transplanted one word meaning one thing with another. I agree that is a very disingenuous way of arguing, but hey that is how you argue so I'm not sure why you are telling me. Do you not read what people post when you respond to them?

Ok....let us have a quick resumé of this part of the discussion. I pointed out that

"Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well...."

To which the response was made;

"Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants."

You'll note that this response is not an acceptance of my point, that it was not refugees. This argument is NOT...'you are correct, they were not refugees they were other immigrants, but was a clear conflation of the two terms. The term 'immigrants' has simply been transplanted for 'refugees' but has been used synonymously. Not for the first or last time within the discussion (see the later "It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along." - referring to refugees)

So your claim that the word is being used distinctly from the term 'refugees' is at best limpid inattention...of course one need only look back over the discussion to check the voracity of one's position.

Of course...there are certain sections of societies who are opposed to immigration more generally...and for whom the refugees are simply another burden upon more...righteous? nations.....and tying them to terrorism is an easy 'out'.....'it's not that I've got anything against these people but.....they might be dangerous'

Yes, what reason could they have for wanting to enter the country without the intelligence services knowing that they have? Maybe they planned to attack certain public places and didn't want to get stopped?

Obviously there was an intelligence failure that lead to the successful attack, same as how the shoot-out a few days later was in contrast successful. Do note btw that your articles do not claim what you say about the French intelligence forces knowing that he had come back to France. Of course they knew that these people were radicals, there are thousands of them on the list of radicals. But because I put a name on a list does not mean I know the whereabouts of that person. If they had returned using their own passports, then it would have been known and they would have been monitored.

Except....you'll note that Europol accept that they have no evidence that Jihadists are travelling with refugees (look here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6738821.html - there are even questions raised as to whether the passport was planted in order to sow discontent and distrust (so that all of this fear-mongering is EXACTLY WHAT the terrorists want....so hats off to you all for your impressive victory over terrrorism, eh? ) which suggests that they know how and when these EU passport holders re-entered the EU.....

[AE Bravo]

Tough to burst the bubble, it's white privilege.

Yes, it's EUs responsibility to some extent. Thank you for assuming responsibility.

[Greyblades]

Tough to burst the bubble, it's white privilege.

Yes, it's EUs responsibility to some extent. Thank you for assuming responsibility.

[Snowhobbit]

Ok....let us have a quick resumé of this part of the discussion. I pointed out that

"Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well...."

To which the response was made;

"Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants."

You'll note that this response is not an acceptance of my point, that it was not refugees. This argument is NOT...'you are correct, they were not refugees they were other immigrants, but was a clear conflation of the two terms. The term 'immigrants' has simply been transplanted for 'refugees' but has been used synonymously. Not for the first or last time within the discussion (see the later "It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along." - referring to refugees)

So your claim that the word is being used distinctly from the term 'refugees' is at best limpid inattention...of course one need only look back over the discussion to check the voracity of one's position.

Of course...there are certain sections of societies who are opposed to immigration more generally...and for whom the refugees are simply another burden upon more...righteous? nations.....and tying them to terrorism is an easy 'out'.....'it's not that I've got anything against these people but.....they might be dangerous'




Except....you'll note that Europol accept that they have no evidence that Jihadists are travelling with refugees (look here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6738821.html - there are even questions raised as to whether the passport was planted in order to sow discontent and distrust (so that all of this fear-mongering is EXACTLY WHAT the terrorists want....so hats off to you all for your impressive victory over terrrorism, eh? ) which suggests that they know how and when these EU passport holders re-entered the EU.....

Right, you use the word refugees, another person uses the word immigrants. A person who knows how to read would at this point realize that immigrants being a different word from refugees denotes a different meaning. That is why they are different words.
But do please go ahead and paint me as a racist, clearly reading what I write is more work than building strawmen. Most impressive.


"The French prosecutor's office said the fingerprints of the dead man matched a print of a person registered under the same name in Greece in October 2015. " But of course just because a passport with matching fingerprints entered the EU with the stream does not in any way mean that the person entered with that stream.
The testimonials of refugees living in asylum centers about ISIS fighters is of course all just made up, we know for sure that 100% of all people who have come to Europe illegally are well intentioned people who wouldn't harm a fly.
I have yet to see you explain btw why it is that the "brains" behind the operation was believed to be in Syria when he was found and killed in Paris?

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Right, you use the word refugees, another person uses the word immigrants. A person who knows how to read would at this point realize that immigrants being a different word from refugees denotes a different meaning. That is why they are different words.
But do please go ahead and paint me as a racist, clearly reading what I write is more work than building strawmen. Most impressive.

Perhaps you have a problem with comprehension...certainly, it seems, with context.

Let me repeat my previous explanation with the addition of some explanatory notes.

I pointed out that

"Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well...."

To which the response was made;

"Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants."

You'll note that this response is not an acceptance of my point, that it was not refugees. This argument is NOT...'you are correct, they were not refugees they were other immigrants, but was a clear conflation of the two terms. The term 'immigrants' has simply been transplanted for 'refugees' but has been used synonymously.(synonymously means used to mean the same thing. You see the response to my point that it was not refugees was a sarcastic comment that the women had made it all up (of course) and imagined the immigrants were involved. Do you see how the word is (let me repeat) simply transplanted and used synonymously - ie to mean the same thing)

So...it's not me that doesn't understand that there is (or should be) a distinction made between the two termst is the individual who conflated the term (and my point was exactly that it was not refugees but other (illegal) immigrants). Still not get it? Frankly an average eight year old would be able to comprehend this.

"The French prosecutor's office said the fingerprints of the dead man matched a print of a person registered under the same name in Greece in October 2015. " But of course just because a passport with matching fingerprints entered the EU with the stream does not in any way mean that the person entered with that stream.
The testimonials of refugees living in asylum centers about ISIS fighters is of course all just made up, we know for sure that 100% of all people who have come to Europe illegally are well intentioned people who wouldn't harm a fly.
I have yet to see you explain btw why it is that the "brains" behind the operation was believed to be in Syria when he was found and killed in Paris?

Did you miss the whole rest of the article (about 90% of it) that follows that sentence you picked out, which starts "however..."?

Of course you did. You missed it all in order that you might maintain the evidence-free concept that there is a possibility that Jihadists may be coming in with the refugees as if it is anything other than a closet-racist's get-out-of-jail free card.

[wooly_mammoth]

Man, if I knew you'd be making such a fuss over me interchanging "refugees" and "immigrants", I would have simply called them "sand-peeps".

[Snowhobbit]

Perhaps you have a problem with comprehension...certainly, it seems, with context.

Let me repeat my previous explanation with the addition of some explanatory notes.

I pointed out that

"Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well...."

To which the response was made;

"Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants."

You'll note that this response is not an acceptance of my point, that it was not refugees. This argument is NOT...'you are correct, they were not refugees they were other immigrants, but was a clear conflation of the two terms. The term 'immigrants' has simply been transplanted for 'refugees' but has been used synonymously.(synonymously means used to mean the same thing. You see the response to my point that it was not refugees was a sarcastic comment that the women had made it all up (of course) and imagined the immigrants were involved. Do you see how the word is (let me repeat) simply transplanted and used synonymously - ie to mean the same thing)

So...it's not me that doesn't understand that there is (or should be) a distinction made between the two termst is the individual who conflated the term (and my point was exactly that it was not refugees but other (illegal) immigrants). Still not get it? Frankly an average eight year old would be able to comprehend this.




Did you miss the whole rest of the article (about 90% of it) that follows that sentence you picked out, which starts "however..."?

Of course you did. You missed it all in order that you might maintain the evidence-free concept that there is a possibility that Jihadists may be coming in with the refugees as if it is anything other than a closet-racist's get-out-of-jail free card.

No, immigrant is still a very much separate word from refugees. Laying the blame on immigrants when you strawman that people claim refugees (3 of which were actually newly arrived refugees btw) is correctly identifying the majority of the perpetrators in the Cologne incident. The term immigrant and refugee is not synonymous, I would urge you to ask your parents to invest in a dictionary for you to avoid these issues in the future.

No, I did not miss that. If you actually read my posts you would note that I have mentioned Sweden being a prime exporter per capita of terrorists to Syria. But I guess it is more fun to paint strawmen than to actually think and engage in a debate?
Have you stopped beating your wife?