IMMIGRATION thread

[Sarmatian]

And such is the loyalty of British Muslims to Britain, that they're more likely to fight for ISIS than to fight for Britain.

That is actually not true.

There are some 650 Muslims in British Armed Forces and some 450 British Muslims fighting in Syria, in all groups, although the estimation is that the majority of those 450 are indeed with ISIS.

There have been more British Muslims in Syria but they became disillusioned with various opposition forces who either collaborated with fundamentalists or were in fact fundamentalists themselves.

Don't think every single person who went to Syria is a traitor.

The number of attacks was few, but what about the number of victims? The Russian plane that fell in Egypt would make up for a dozen terror attacks victim-wise.

"quite a few" meaning a respectable number. Russia wasn't a target of Middle Eastern terrorists before Russia started meddling in Syria.

Point being, it contradicts the notion that terrorism isn't connected to a political goal.

[Snowhobbit]

That is actually not true.

There are some 650 Muslims in British Armed Forces and some 450 British Muslims fighting in Syria, in all groups, although the estimation is that the majority of those 450 are indeed with ISIS.

There have been more British Muslims in Syria but they became disillusioned with various opposition forces who either collaborated with fundamentalists or were in fact fundamentalists themselves.

Don't think every single person who went to Syria is a traitor.



"quite a few" meaning a respectable number. Russia wasn't a target of Middle Eastern terrorists before Russia started meddling in Syria.

Point being, it contradicts the notion that terrorism isn't connected to a political goal.

Do I need to boil my previous post down so that it does not contain as much information in response for you to address it?

[Pannonian]

That is actually not true.

There are some 650 Muslims in British Armed Forces and some 450 British Muslims fighting in Syria, in all groups, although the estimation is that the majority of those 450 are indeed with ISIS.

There have been more British Muslims in Syria but they became disillusioned with various opposition forces who either collaborated with fundamentalists or were in fact fundamentalists themselves.

Don't think every single person who went to Syria is a traitor.

They're not traitors. To be a traitor to Britain, you have to be British, then betray Britain. As your earlier quote illustrates, British Muslims are Muslims, not British. Even if they were born in Britain, if they are Muslim, then their people is the Muslim nation, not Britain.

[Sarmatian]

Do I need to boil my previous post down so that it does not contain as much information in response for you to address it?

What previous post?

They're not traitors. To be a traitor to Britain, you have to be British, then betray Britain. As your earlier quote illustrates, British Muslims are Muslims, not British. Even if they were born in Britain, if they are Muslim, then their people is the Muslim nation, not Britain.

That is a few Muslims, not all Muslims.

You'd have a much better case calling Scots traitors, as almost a half of them don't consider themselves British.

[Pannonian]

What previous post?



That is a few Muslims, not all Muslims.

You'd have a much better case calling Scots traitors, as almost a half of them don't consider themselves British.

Except I'm no longer calling the Muslims traitors. They're not British, by their own admission, so they can't be traitors to Britain. What the Muslims demonstrate is that, unlike nearly every other immigrant community, there is no reliable process of integration for them. However well any individual or generation integrates, there is a high likelihood that somewhere along the line there will be someone who decides they are Muslims first and British nowhere, and that this justifies violence against the British people. Which, since they had a birthright of British citizenship, they can more easily carry out. Same problem with the French apparently, who have also produced their own homegrown jihadis. In the light of that, there is no good reason to admit yet more Muslims into the UK, whatever guilting arguments people want to impress on us. Accept the current situation as a loss, and stop its further spread from abroad. Syrians shouldn't go through the normal admissions process. They shouldn't be admitted, full stop.

[Fragony]

Sarmatarian has a point though, those who went to Syria aren't necesarily traiters, a substantial amount went to fight Assad when IS didn't exist at the time. It's different of course for those who go now. There are Dutch ex-military militias who fight alongside the Kurds, traitors as well, Turkey is a Nato-partner after all and they kinda dislike Kurds. I say go militias