IMMIGRATION thread

[Seamus Fermanagh]

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If you assume for a minute that Trump would establish a similar system when elected and have around 50% of the voting population backing him up, where would the armed rebellion come from? The democratic gun control supporters? If those Trump supporters then supported the right of store owners to reject muslim customers for example, and then after two years, Trump and congress would pass a law banning muslims from entering shopping malls because it's just too dangerous to have them there and so on...perhaps they'd have to wear an armband with a crescent on it, too...
You think that could never happen? I would surely hope so, but I'm not so sure....

You might be surprised....

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[Husar]

I cannot argue that what you say is impossible. I can assert that USA culture, from inception to present, does NOT lend itself to such. A tyranny of the majority would have to be profound majority to re-cast things in a fascist mold given our system. And yes, it is the cultural difference above all that spells the difference.

Different places, with different traditions and cultural views HAVE taken the "boot on the neck" approach and used it successfully for decades at a stretch. That is why I expressed myself as I did -- I am not going to claim that I am so knowledgeable of your culture that I could judge the rightness of such laws in that context. I only expressed reservations.

I don't think we have much of a "boot on the neck" approach, and I would even agree that our ban of Nazi symbols and the likes is probably a bit outdated and/or just makes them organize in secret and hide behind statements that are more tame than what they really mean.
On the other hand though, a democratic society should defend its democracy and sometimes a rising tide can be stemmed with a ban, or can it not? I mean that in the sense of "evil happens because good people watch and do nothing against it". I don't think Hitler could get elected in the USA tomorrow, it always starts small and it is often something basic like fear that convinces people to support it until it is too late and they fear what they supported...

I mean the tactics to convince people to hate others have been tested in US schools as well and no culture prevented the students from going along with them. See also the internement of the Japanese during WW2. It's almost as though culture doesn't count for anything once you appeal to the lizard-part of the brain.

In general I think the differences between modern Germany and the USA are not so big. Surely there are plenty of details that are different and the USA are ahead on quite a few curves, but in the end our modern constitution was co-authored by Americans and in terms of business and everyday life, well, we both have what we call "Western culture" and a lot of trends from the US swap over here sooner or later while you also copy some of ours, like the Oktoberfest. Not to forget that many of the products we buy are sort of international. So when I say something like that could happen in the US, I think it could happen anywhere. The question is just, should the government crack down on a movement once it becomes large enough to threaten the democratic constitution or is it more democratic to have a country democratically turned into a dictatorship by popular vote? In Germany, a party that runs on the idea of abolishing our democratic constitution can be banned.

The question was just whether you'd think it would be more democratic to allow them to get elected and then abolish democracy based on "60% of the population voted for it" for example? It's a bit of an extreme example, I'm aware, but some would say that this is what happened in Turkey, Erdogan got reelected several times and slowly changed the country into a different one where he "accidentally" holds more power than before.

I'm not feeling in any way bad about what you said, I just want your philosophical view of sorts on whether you'd think such a tyranny of the majority should be stopped by harsher measures if necessary or whether you think it should be allowed to run its course.
I'm also sorry for writing so much.

You might be surprised....

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That Republicans have more guns on average is not surprising at all. They they are more likely to kill innocent animals isn't either.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...That Republicans have more guns on average is not surprising at all. They they are more likely to kill innocent animals isn't either.

Scamp. You did note that quite a few Dems are pretty well armed as well.

[Husar]

Scamp. You did note that quite a few Dems are pretty well armed as well.

Of course, but even that wasn't surprising because on the one hand I know a little bit about US society and on the other hand I would like to own guns myself, despite thinking it's probably not a good idea...