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  1. #38
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    "France is iirc the only country that applies this totally." So?

    "My issue is the dismissal of the fact that this is a violation of human rights and freedom, that you claim Islam is against." As it is not. You are the one saying it is not a piece of Religion clothing. So, usual norms of office clothing apply at the leisure of the manager. Or, like it is claimed by the Muslim clergymen, it is part of Islam so the law on separation state/religion apply.
    We have a saying in French: You can't have the cream, the money of the cream, and the smile of the shopkeeper, and it is exactely what you try to have.

    "This is not an example of a cultural attire, it’s under the category of common courtesy or public modesty and perfectly fine." Why? Why cultural attire should have an exemption as well as religion? And why modesty should be considered? Why a women should be modest? Your restriction on freedom are larger than mine. Modesty? and what after?

    "I was more referring to banning a culture, banning timbs and champion hoodies with baggy jeans, low pants, a pair of j’s, and snapbacks" Try to go to work in an office with all this, and you will see how much time it will take to the manager to call you in. Lots and lots of clothing and fashions are banned from places of work. So why the hidjab should be exempt of clothing regulations in work places?

    "The justification of this law needs adjustment because making such an arbitrary connection between all of Islam's problems to the hijab is uninformed and hypocritical for practicing - not religious intolerance, but cultural intolerance." Well, explain this in the Mosques preaching that the hidjab is part of the requirements to be a good and obedient Muslim, then I will agree when they will. Until you succeed in doing so, I will accept the opinion of French Imams telling it is, so the hidjab will be ban in Public Offices.
    And no law make a connection between all Islam's problems to the hidjab. The law voted in 1904 banned all religious symbols and uniforms for Public Servants and in Public Institution as schools. The law apply for the Sikhs, Muslims, Jews and others.

    "But my question was how does this ban against the hijab prevent racism." And my answer was it doesn't. The law was passed in order to prevent discrimination based on religion. Racism is an other issue. The French lawmakers at that time passed this law against the Catholic Church. A bit too long to explain, but the idea was there are enough possibilities to segregate population without adding one that can be avoided.
    If you don't know a person is Jew, or atheist, or whatever, you can't discriminate on these grounds. Simple, no?

    "You’re assuming that the hijab endorses these things " Yes I do, but not the law. The law says no religious whatever in etc. The law applies, that why it is a law. Jews can't wear Kippa, too apparent religious symbols are forbidden.

    "Sure it places itself on a pedestal, but not based on racial groups. So by definition it is not racism." By definition there is only one race of humans, other races being horses, cows, goats, pigs and others.
    So we can play on wording if you want.
    Jew is not a race, it is a religion, however the extermination of the Jews by the Nazi was based on a racist ideology. So is Islam. Or other religions, by the way.
    Last edited by Brenus; 08-31-2015 at 23:05.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

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