To Hijab or not to Hijab

[Brenus]

“Again, speaking about the hijab. I don’t care about no burkas or niqabs I agree they’re ridiculous.” It is not about ridiculous or not. It is, for me, the necessary neutrality in some workplaces i.e. Civil Servants are bound to be. A Jewish can argue that a Muslim Judge will be discriminatory (we had the case where the Defendant refused some juries because they were allegedly Jews).
The fact is there is confusion between fashion and religion I agree.
However, as it is impossible to decide what is what, the ban of all ostentatious religious symbols where neutrality (which is an active principle, not a default one) has to be enforced.

“and you don’t need Islam to tell you to commit such things.” I agree. But you can’t avoid the problem that if a Holly (or even a common law) book tells it is right to do so you have a problem with the text.

“A Muslim who does not admit that this book has contradictions is uneducated and in denial.” Agree. But in the texts I read, or debate I listen, a lot of them just ignore that the Koran (final? Version) took some editing and time. And these are the majority. I have the debate in French of one Muslim scholar who just say what you say, but he is in a minority.
I grant you that Media prefer to invite the others, it makes more audience.
If you speak French, a really good debate:
https://youtu.be/1r7LGzkulEg

[AE Bravo]

Fringes or not, they exist and have stayed in their ancestral regions up until the arrival of ISIS.

So real druze for example are not blood-related to non-druze, does that set them apart from the collective Arab civilization? I don’t see it. There is one Arab civ body and Islam happens to dominate most of that as a result of its forceful nature towards the region. This is unfortunate but to not acknowledge that is utter denial.

I disagree completely. Arab civilization long predates islam as good old Philip the Arab would attest. Also, there is a cultural abyss between a Lebanese, a Yemeni, and a Moroccan. Not to mention that they would barely understand one another.

Yes it does, so what makes you think your ancestors are different from mine? I wasn’t around then so please enlighten me. There are countless dialects in the Arab world, but that difference does not instantly cut off any blood ties they have. I don’t even know how many dialects there are in Saudi Arabia but there are quite a few of them. Also why would you bring up a white Roman into a discussion about what is Arab and what is not, this is for Arabs to decide...

Exactly, so the industrious ones leave. The ones who are sure to stay are the guys who take pride in being useless. The world needs a very limted number of calligraphers, koranic scholars, and experts in medieval arabic poetry. Most actually need to learn to do something useful instead.

I think you may have an outdated perception of what’s actually going on. There are little to no local calligraphers and experts in medieval arabic poetry. Koranic scholars are dying out in fact besides in the kingdom. These guys may be useless in many things but they occupy white-collar jobs and most of them are middle class business men who take advantage of the benefits the govt showers on them.

What’s ironic is that these useless jobs and fields of study are mostly occupied by Levantine Arabs, Muslim or not.

Do you see things making a serious change? Because I do not. As for Oman, that Kaboos fellow is a brilliant man, but he's in his seventies now. What mechanism would prevent thing from going to business as usual once he dies? There is no such mechanism.

There is little indication that business will not go as usual. Qaboos might be the world’s greatest administrator, iirc that country has zero debt. He has already established a culture of job diversity and the population is accustomed to it. Oman is unlike any other country, especially in the Gulf, and will probably be around for a long time. This is a country that established its own religious Islamic freedom and outright rejected the prophet and his following caliphs’ commands.

However, as it is impossible to decide what is what, the ban of all ostentatious religious symbols where neutrality (which is an active principle, not a default one) has to be enforced.

Well then that's that I guess. I suppose if they don't like it they should not work as civil servants, especially in France where it might oppose your history and culture of secularism.

[rvg]

So real druze for example are not blood-related to non-druze, does that set them apart from the collective Arab civilization? I don’t see it. There is one Arab civ body and Islam happens to dominate most of that as a result of its forceful nature towards the region. This is unfortunate but to not acknowledge that is utter denial.

Don't know much about the Druze to be honest. What I do know is that if you walk up to an Egyptian and refer to him as an Arab, he will not be happy to hear it and will likely correct you, stressing that he's an Egyptian.

Yes it does, so what makes you think your ancestors are different from mine? I wasn’t around then so please enlighten me. There are countless dialects in the Arab world, but that difference does not instantly cut off any blood ties they have. I don’t even know how many dialects there are in Saudi Arabia but there are quite a few of them. Also why would you bring up a white Roman into a discussion about what is Arab and what is not, this is for Arabs to decide...

I think you're confusing making the assumption that Arabs = Bedouins. That's an oversimplification. As far as why I know that my ancestors are different from yours, it's precisely that: you're a bedouin, and I'm not. Nor did I ever have any ancestors from Arabia.

I think you may have an outdated perception of what’s actually going on. There are little to no local calligraphers and experts in medieval arabic poetry. Koranic scholars are dying out in fact besides in the kingdom. These guys may be useless in many things but they occupy white-collar jobs and most of them are middle class business men who take advantage of the benefits the govt showers on them.

Of course, it's understandable that they would take what is offered to them. I'm just wondering what's going to happen when the gravy train stops. There will be lots of pissed off people who used to be rich, and those people will surely begin to rock the boat. More instability in the Gulf: that is the absolute last thing anybody needs.

What’s ironic is that these useless jobs and fields of study are mostly occupied by Levantine Arabs, Muslim or not.

Well, shame on them for wasting their lives.

There is little indication that business will not go as usual. Qaboos might be the world’s greatest administrator, iirc that country has zero debt. He has already established a culture of job diversity and the population is accustomed to it. Oman is unlike any other country, especially in the Gulf, and will probably be around for a long time. This is a country that established its own religious Islamic freedom and outright rejected the prophet and his following caliphs’ commands.

I hope you're right. I just know that his father was the exact opposite of him. Now, considering that afaik he has no children and no heir, you're looking at a possible full blown succession crisis. In a country where one man pretty much decides everything, the possibility of a wrong man getting on the throne is quite real.