Our Lord, J.C.

[Greyblades]

Bloody autocorrect. Fixd

[InsaneApache]

LOL

[Beskar]

[Greyblades]

Wow, I cant believe how little I care about political mud slinging, It's almost as little as the amount of answers my questions on this thread have garnered.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Point undermined by title - everything Cameron said can be supported by other Corbyn quotes.

Security-threatening: Wants to cancel Trident, believes Russia is largely benign.

Terrorist-Sympathising: Refuses to condemn the IRA, willing to share a platform with anti-Jewish Middle Eastern Activists with links to terrorism.

British-Hating: For a given value of "British" there is an orgy of evidence but generally Corbyn is very much a "white apologiser" the sort of person who would use tax-payer money to make reparations to Caribbean and African countries.

Nor did Cameron say that Corbyn doesn't think 9/11 was a tragedy, he merely said that the killing of Bin Laden was not.

Frankly, I agree, arrest may have been preferable (I'm in two minds on it) but the man was a monster and he's dead - his killing is far from tragic.

[Beskar]

Point undermined by title - everything Cameron said can be supported by other Corbyn quotes.

Those are basically media spin and further political mud-slinging. (Other than removing Trident, because he does support that.)

But lets look at your two main points:

IRA: He has condemned the use of violence by the IRA, saying that this should be done peacefully but he hasn't condemned the group themselves because without the violence part, is Irish nationalism really such a terrible thing to condemn? Only important thing has been discussed.

He has said that the Peace process should involve Hamas because it wouldn't work without their participation in the talks, because if they agree to them, then they will stop their violence. This is common sense stuff. I put it this way: I am going to do an arrangement with Greyblades where we use your house for Gaming on Saturday nights, lets see how successful we are without your involvement.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Those are basically media spin and further political mud-slinging. (Other than removing Trident, because he does support that.)

But lets look at your two main points:

IRA: He has condemned the use of violence by the IRA, saying that this should be done peacefully but he hasn't condemned the group themselves because without the violence part, is Irish nationalism really such a terrible thing to condemn? Only important thing has been discussed.

He has said that the Peace process should involve Hamas because it wouldn't work without their participation in the talks, because if they agree to them, then they will stop their violence. This is common sense stuff. I put it this way: I am going to do an arrangement with Greyblades where we use your house for Gaming on Saturday nights, lets see how successful we are without your involvement.

We should talk about Cameron's statement being "lies" first. At the end of the day it's not actually relevant in what context Corbyn called Bin Laden's death a "tragedy" because for many people, including myself, his death was necessary, even assuming his capture had been possible and we'd actually had evidence that would stand up in a Court of Law his final circumstances would have seen him living much as he had in Pakistan, doubtless after the Hague had convicted him he would have been sent to a European prison where he would have had exercise, been well fed, had access to reading material and at least written correspondence with the outside world, and his incarceration might actually have driven his followers to new terrors in an effort to secure his release.

Now lets talk about Hamas: - they have vowed to destroy Israel, and therefore cannot be negotiated with. I was, however, referring to that one anti-Semitic activist who described Corbyn as a "political friend" or some such after having shared a platform with him. Corbyn said he did not know the man, did not support his views and had not shared a platform with him - only to subsequently admit he HAD shared a platform with him but had completely forgotten about it until reminded by his campaign team.

Now, I ask you, if David Cameron had said that would ANYONE accept it? No, they would not. Jeremy is just a well meaning old duffer though - so it's ok if he forgot.

the IRA: Prior to his election he refused to say that he condemned the actions of the IRA, he just said that violence was wrong - he then went on to condemn the actions of the BRITISH ARMY but still would not condemn the actions of the IRA - then the line cut. Again, he was allowed to get away with that when anyone else would be tarred and feathered. Also - this is another episode that can go in the "British-hating" bag, and I'm inclined to think it should - because he's happier to condemn British soldiers than Irish terrorists.

Now, the question is do you know me well enough to know these things were said, or are you going to make me actually pull the quotes?

P.S. The IRA are NOT Irish nationalism and to suggest such is to spit on the peaceful protesters who were being hounded by Protestants back in the 1970's. People forget that Operation Banner began as an effort to protect Catholics, but then the IRA called it an "invasion" and declared war.

[Beskar]

We should talk about Cameron's statement being "lies" first.

David Camerons speech is a complete misrepresentation of what JC said. You could argue it is not technically a lie, but it is taking a snippet completely out of context and misrepresenting the fact JC was on about the Rule of Law and stooped ourselves into state-sanctioned murder and the opportunity of trial wasn't even considered. Not going to go into a debate about how luxurious you find prison life to be, no matter how malleable your view of the ten commandments are in this circumstance.

Now, I ask you, if David Cameron had said that would ANYONE accept it? No, they would not. Jeremy is just a well meaning old duffer though - so it's ok if he forgot.

Jeremy makes an honest mistake of not remembering sharing a platform with a bunch of people who are most likely strangers, and it is brought up repeatedly. In his circumstances, is understandable, unlike certain Prime Minister and Miss Piggy. (Funnily enough, not heard you bring that up)

Again, he was allowed to get away with that when anyone else would be tarred and feathered.

He was tarred and feathered. Saw the headlines? He is constantly attacked by the media and it reeks of desperation, worse than how it is Farage and that is saying something.

[Montmorency]

Now lets talk about Hamas: - they have vowed to destroy Israel, and therefore cannot be negotiated with.

Aside from all the times that various Western and Israeli governments have found it useful to negotiate with them...

[Idaho]

Point undermined by title - everything Cameron said can be supported by other Corbyn quotes.

Security-threatening: Wants to cancel Trident, believes Russia is largely benign.

Terrorist-Sympathising: Refuses to condemn the IRA, willing to share a platform with anti-Jewish Middle Eastern Activists with links to terrorism.

British-Hating: For a given value of "British" there is an orgy of evidence but generally Corbyn is very much a "white apologiser" the sort of person who would use tax-payer money to make reparations to Caribbean and African countries.

Nor did Cameron say that Corbyn doesn't think 9/11 was a tragedy, he merely said that the killing of Bin Laden was not.

Frankly, I agree, arrest may have been preferable (I'm in two minds on it) but the man was a monster and he's dead - his killing is far from tragic.

I find it amazing how we share the same planet and species... Yet I find your mindset so alien and repugnant. You perpetuate untruths because they fit in with your prior beliefs.

Calling Corbyn anti British is just so... So... Tory. It presupposes a static and wholey owned notion of Britishness. It flies in the face of the fact that Corbyn has been a tireless and hardworking champion of British people. It fails to see detail and subtleties with regard to Corbyn's view on Russia and ignores his work with a variety of groups and people over a lifetime.

[Beskar]

I think this article is rather apt.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a6686901.html

At least JC hasn't gone to extremes to secure the rural vote like David Cameron did.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I find it amazing how we share the same planet and species... Yet I find your mindset so alien and repugnant. You perpetuate untruths because they fit in with your prior beliefs.

Calling Corbyn anti British is just so... So... Tory. It presupposes a static and wholey owned notion of Britishness. It flies in the face of the fact that Corbyn has been a tireless and hardworking champion of British people. It fails to see detail and subtleties with regard to Corbyn's view on Russia and ignores his work with a variety of groups and people over a lifetime.

You completely missed the bit where I said "for a certain value of British", or perhaps it just doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of who I am.

Corbyn is a Republican who joined the Privy Council but failed to actually meet the Queen because he was "busy" - just another example of how he is "British-hating", from a certain perspective. This is, at his core, a man who openly despises parts of the British political settlement and British traditions, you are entitled to think those particular traditions are unimportant but others are equally entitled to be offended.

Cameron's speech can be miss-interpreted, yes, it is even written to be misinterpreted, which betrays a certain cynicism, but at the same time Cameron's opponents have misinterpreted it in exactly the same way as some of the people in that conference hall did - and were likely meant to.

What Cameron ACTUALLY said was that Bin Laden's death was not a tragedy and it was not comparable to 9/11 - Corbyn has said it was a tragedy and made the direct comparison to 9/11.

Beskar then posted something titled "Lies vs Laws" when, in fact, Cameron never lied.

So - how dare you call me "repugnant" for seeing Corbyn as anti-British, given that you have so little regard for our institutions that you refuse to vote OR run for office. Presumably you agree with the Shadow Chancellor and "Insurrection" otherwise known as "direct action" is a legitimate alternative to the ballot box in this country.

I surely hope not.

[Idaho]

You completely missed the bit where I said "for a certain value of British", or perhaps it just doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of who I am.

Corbyn is a Republican who joined the Privy Council but failed to actually meet the Queen because he was "busy" - just another example of how he is "British-hating", from a certain perspective. This is, at his core, a man who openly despises parts of the British political settlement and British traditions, you are entitled to think those particular traditions are unimportant but others are equally entitled to be offended.

Cameron's speech can be miss-interpreted, yes, it is even written to be misinterpreted, which betrays a certain cynicism, but at the same time Cameron's opponents have misinterpreted it in exactly the same way as some of the people in that conference hall did - and were likely meant to.

What Cameron ACTUALLY said was that Bin Laden's death was not a tragedy and it was not comparable to 9/11 - Corbyn has said it was a tragedy and made the direct comparison to 9/11.

Beskar then posted something titled "Lies vs Laws" when, in fact, Cameron never lied.

So - how dare you call me "repugnant" for seeing Corbyn as anti-British, given that you have so little regard for our institutions that you refuse to vote OR run for office. Presumably you agree with the Shadow Chancellor and "Insurrection" otherwise known as "direct action" is a legitimate alternative to the ballot box in this country.

I surely hope not.

This country is a work in progress. It is a different place to what it was 10, 25, 50, 100 or 500 years ago. It will be different again in another 50 years. Conservatives believe that the country should be stuck in some half remembered/half made up past. I hope that it is totally different in 50 years. Unrecognisable even.