Fate- does it exist?

**Hooahguy** · 09-16-2015, 21:04

Im one of those weirdos who believes that there is some aspect of fate in our lives.

For me at least its not a set thing though. I see it as more of diverging paths that each decision in life takes you on a different road with a different result. Like had I stayed at my old university, I would have never gone to Norway or traveled Europe as much as I have, wouldn't have gone to see the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo (as I wouldnt have worked for a year to raise the money for it). All those things set me on the path I am now and I think there is an end state for all of this that is determined by some sort of force that we cannot understand.

When I think of all of this I very much think of Robert Frost's poem, "The Road Not Taken"-

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Thoughts? Of the people Ive talked to about this I seem to be in the minority when it comes to this so Im interested to hear if anyone else thinks the same way.

**Montmorency** · 09-16-2015, 21:39

Fate is the opposite of determinism. Think about that.

**Husar** · 09-16-2015, 22:10

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Fate is the opposite of determinism. Think about that.

You mean that as in determinism assumes that the state of an object leads to a new state whereas with fate the following state of the object is determined by an outside power? The practical implications of the two seem to be pretty much the same to me.

I for one think the universe is somewhat deterministic, but I do not think too much about it because it ruins the fun.

**Montmorency** · 09-16-2015, 22:13

In causality, there is an intuitive "arrow of time": Precedents lead to (if not "determine") consequents.

Fate is a sort of determinism, so they will sound similar in effect. It's just that fate is standard determinism in reverse.

**Brenus** · 09-16-2015, 22:25

Hmm. Is fate a other word for destiny? It is something I am struggling with, because part of the atheist wants something for explanation for events I try to control.
You know, I am at the age where question "if I could, what would I change" happened. And the fact is my answer is nothing. All doors closed meant a new door opened. Better or not, I will never know.
As a Prachet's reader, I know there no what if as there is no guarantee that a different choice/road would have given a better result of worst.
No girl friend at 19, no marriage, no divorce, perhaps still in the army or killed in Iraq or Africa, no university, etc, to the end of no beautiful grand-daughters. Or perhaps not.
Fate: a wild river on which you are kayaking with the illusion you control the stream, and any way, finish by death
Life is a sexually transmitted deadly disease said a French humorist.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 09-16-2015, 23:50

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

In general I don't think we're destined but if God decides you're going to be the next Moses you don't really have any options.

**Kadagar_AV** · 09-17-2015, 09:09

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Im one of those weirdos who believes that there is some aspect of fate in our lives.

Thoughts?

Stupid.

I'll just quote one of our best football players after he scored one of those "once in a million" goals...

"Well, you know, the harder you train the more luck you get".

And I think that quote is enough to leave this discussion.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 09-17-2015, 11:06

I believe in metaphysical determinism. This metaphysical determinism could encompass both natural processes (eg, A inevitably leads to B) as well as the supernatural (eg, God ordains a special purpose for Moses). Or, it could just be one without the other. Secular folk tend to believe either just the first or neither, whereas religious folk tend to believe just the latter. I think both are true. I suppose what people call fate would be that latter kind.

However, I'm not 100% as set on this as I used to be. After looking into quantum mechanics, I think there is scope for genuine chance within the universe, which could blow the whole determinism thing out the water.

**Montmorency** · 09-17-2015, 12:09

Quantum mysticism is one of the biggest institutional embarrassments since the Ptolemaic model.

**Husar** · 09-17-2015, 14:33

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

However, I'm not 100% as set on this as I used to be. After looking into quantum mechanics, I think there is scope for genuine chance within the universe, which could blow the whole determinism thing out the water.

How or why? People seem to use quantum physics to justify almost anything but I rarely see a detailed and convincing explanation.