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Thread: The EU finally jumps the shark!

  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Ok we've had elected heads of state removed and placemen inserted, now we have the full on version of 'post-democracy'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...rom-power.html

    Portugal has entered dangerous political waters. For the first time since the creation of Europe’s monetary union, a member state has taken the explicit step of forbidding eurosceptic parties from taking office on the grounds of national interest.

    Anibal Cavaco Silva, Portugal’s constitutional president, has refused to appoint a Left-wing coalition government even though it secured an absolute majority in the Portuguese parliament and won a mandate to smash the austerity regime bequeathed by the EU-IMF Troika.
    Now will people wake up and smell the coffee?
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    That is Portugals president, not the Eurozone and he is a conservative president who backs austerity and deems non-austerity as a threat to Portugal as a country.

    Keep spinning Insane.
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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    It not exactly spin though is it? The message loud and clear is that you can vote for any party you want but only those parties that favour the EU will get into power.

    Like I said, welcome to the 'post-democratic' age.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Can't they impeach the prez? Send him packing and elect someone who actually respects the constitution and the will of the people.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    I don’t know why you think this is so new. Didn’t the EU install unelected governments in Italy and Greece already. That was a much larger anti-democratic move than this.

    This is national politics in support of the EU institutions. If you think the will of the people has anything to do with it you are very out of touch.

    We have been moving toward anti-republican, anti-national world governing bodies at least since the 1970s. The movement is just gaining momentum.

    Politicians know instinctively which masters to serve and it sure as hell is not the people.

    We are moving toward a corporatist plutocracy if you haven’t noticed. The only groups that matter are those that control and distribute the cash.

    The 2008 financial crises should have shown you that much.


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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    "Didn’t the EU install unelected governments in Italy and Greece already" Better than that: EU refused to recognised EU referendum in few country that had the cheek to vote no to the European treaty. Italy and Greece (and don't forget Cyprus) were imposed leaders, and the ECB (head is the guy who helped the former Greek governments to cook the book) cut the cash when some try to object.

    On the other hand, UK Boris Johnson is a great admirer of China, so is the prime Minister who can't wait the Communist Chinese Dictatorship to invest in UK. He took from Mao the idea of the Great Leap, but he misread the title so it is a leap backward.
    Now, what the Sun and others rightist tabloids would have published if Corbin (as B. Johnson did) would have admire the Chinese model, that I can't imagine, and if he would welcome a dictator...
    Last edited by Brenus; 10-25-2015 at 13:21.
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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Ok we've had elected heads of state removed and placemen inserted, now we have the full on version of 'post-democracy'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...rom-power.html

    Now will people wake up and smell the coffee?
    That the telegraph spins like crazy? http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/20...im-busted.html

    Short version. The major left party (PS, who isn't against the euro btw) has really bad blood between them and the smaller left wing parties, so while the PSD lost power, they're still the largest party, since there's no political coalition against the PSD. So it's basically political chaos atm in Portugal, until you get a working coalition .
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!



    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

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    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Didn’t the EU install unelected governments in Italy and Greece already" Better than that: EU refused to recognised EU referendum in few country that had the cheek to vote no to the European treaty. Italy and Greece (and don't forget Cyprus) were imposed leaders, and the ECB (head is the guy who helped the former Greek governments to cook the book) cut the cash when some try to object.
    Why should they have accepted it? It was a decision that also concerned them and their people, not only the Greeks. The only government which ignored it was the greek one of Alexis Ebert.
    Also, what do you and Fisherking mean by "EU installed unelected governments in Greece"?

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!



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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Didn’t the EU install unelected governments in Italy and Greece already" Better than that: EU refused to recognised EU referendum in few country that had the cheek to vote no to the European treaty. Italy and Greece (and don't forget Cyprus) were imposed leaders, and the ECB (head is the guy who helped the former Greek governments to cook the book) cut the cash when some try to object.
    No, this is worse because in the case of the Greek and Italian governments that was the EU imposing temporary conditions in return for a big pile of cash, and those governments had essentially collapsed and then

    In this case you have the head of an EU government circumventing the democratic process, in a parliamentary democracy, for the benefit of EU institutions - not national interest.

    On the other hand, UK Boris Johnson is a great admirer of China, so is the prime Minister who can't wait the Communist Chinese Dictatorship to invest in UK. He took from Mao the idea of the Great Leap, but he misread the title so it is a leap backward.
    Now, what the Sun and others rightist tabloids would have published if Corbin (as B. Johnson did) would have admire the Chinese model, that I can't imagine, and if he would welcome a dictator...
    Yes, China is terrible. I don't get that at all.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    "the EU imposing temporary conditions in return for a big pile of cash," to be sure that these 2 countries could pay the debts to Germany and France, and allowing the rest of EU to buy all it is valuable left there.
    So we "gave" money to be paid, not to help a recovery then to see what can be done.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    No, this is worse because in the case of the Greek and Italian governments that was the EU imposing temporary conditions in return for a big pile of cash, and those governments had essentially collapsed and then

    In this case you have the head of an EU government circumventing the democratic process, in a parliamentary democracy, for the benefit of EU institutions - not national interest.
    It is not for the benefit of only EU institutions. It is mainly for the benefit of privately held banking interests. You know, the ones that were given all that money because they gambled other peoples money away and were going to default.

    It is why those countries are in so much debt, paying off those bankers. Divesting properties held in public trust, to be sold to more multinational corporations so the public has to pay cash for what they once owned.

    This is only a different face on what was done before. None of it is in the public interest. It is all to further privet financial interests and guarantee the money they created as loans to prop up the governments that gave them the money to prop up those same banks.

    Meanwhile, in the name of “Free Trade” governments surrender parts of their national severity to these business interests, moving us a little farther down the road to what they want. Plutocratic Corporatism.
    Last edited by Fisherking; 10-25-2015 at 19:58.


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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!



    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
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  15. #15
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Who's surprised when euroscpectic journalists already have permaban.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    The rather large difference is that anyone is beholden to one's creditors - if you want to do things your own way, don't borrow.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    The rather large difference is that anyone is beholden to one's creditors - if you want to do things your own way, don't borrow.

    I would ask, was it borrowed or was it assigned. The monies owed by EU States was not borrowed. It was assigned as their portion of the bailout.

    I will use Greece as an example because I know that in the Greek Bailout 92% of the funding went to other foreign banks throughout the EU and 8% of the funding went to Greek banks. The moneys only existed on paper or as digital information created by the central banks to bail out their member banks who are the shareholders of those same central banks.

    The governments were just the ones who got stuck with the cheque, who passed it along to the taxpaying public. The austerity measures imposed were deflationary and economically damaging to the nations but needed by the banks to bring currency levels under control for the health of the banks who caused the problem to begin with.


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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!



    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
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    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Interesting. I would prefer Lenin's voting with our feet. Greece hs shown where negotiating gets you - hit with the existing laws and that's that.

    There are no caveats to the vote, nothing where one can say "yes but..." to vote to remain in will be taken as acceptance of everything that the EU does and hat will be viewed as their democratic mandate.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
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    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    Nation building is still alive and well, just in a different form.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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  22. #22
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The EU finally jumps the shark!

    I know where that guy's next job is. Post-democratic, yeah. This is the wet-dream of all eurocrats. Adds up with wanting a berufsverbot for inquisitive journalists.

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