Party in the USSR

[Montmorency]

As for comparisons to Islamist Iran, well, it's no surprise that the language of shame and blame and sin carries over quite well.

As the 1980 Moscow Olympics approached, a Soviet official was asked whether his country would host that year’s Paralympics for the first time.

“There are no invalids in the U.S.S.R.!” he thundered back, a phrase that went down in history.

[Idaho]

Russia, in 30 years, went from being a country of illiterate peasants and feudal lords, with a thoroughly pre modern concept of time, law, manufacturing, etc. To a country that defeated the greatest military power of the age (Germany) and was the first to send an astronaut to space.

I would be the first to list the downsides, drawbacks, tyranny and lunacy of the Soviet system. But credit where credits due.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Russia, in 30 years, went from being a country of illiterate peasants and feudal lords, with a thoroughly pre modern concept of time, law, manufacturing, etc. To a country that defeated the greatest military power of the age (Germany) and was the first to send an astronaut to space.

I would be the first to list the downsides, drawbacks, tyranny and lunacy of the Soviet system. But credit where credits due.

How about:

recently praised “the innate humanity of Fidel Castro and Che Guevara’s legacy.” Since 1959, the rancid dictatorship in Cuba has consistently forgotten to hold free elections, but don’t allow ideas of democratic pluralism to undermine “the historical importance of Cuba’s struggle for social justice and sovereignty and its creative social mobilisation [which] will continue to echo beyond its time and place.”

He's a Communist Apologist, of the type which was prevalent on the Left in the 60's and 70's.

[Idaho]

How about:

recently praised “the innate humanity of Fidel Castro and Che Guevara’s legacy.” Since 1959, the rancid dictatorship in Cuba has consistently forgotten to hold free elections, but don’t allow ideas of democratic pluralism to undermine “the historical importance of Cuba’s struggle for social justice and sovereignty and its creative social mobilisation [which] will continue to echo beyond its time and place.”

He's a Communist Apologist, of the type which was prevalent on the Left in the 60's and 70's.

It's an endless fascination to me that those on the right spend so much time digging through opinion pieces or speeches for such paltry evidence - while simultaneously ignoring the ACTUAL deals and actions of right wing politicians. The propping up and arming of Saddam, Pinochet, etc. The pushing of a militaristic foreign policy that kills millions in order to fund their arms dealer backers (Mark Thatcher for goodness sake!)

It's like comparing murderers and thieves with people who muse aloud awkwardly about abstract concepts.

[Beskar]

It's like comparing murderers and thieves with people who muse aloud awkwardly about abstract concepts.

You forget, it is their murderers and thieves, not that smelly lefty!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It's an endless fascination to me that those on the right spend so much time digging through opinion pieces or speeches for such paltry evidence - while simultaneously ignoring the ACTUAL deals and actions of right wing politicians. The propping up and arming of Saddam, Pinochet, etc. The pushing of a militaristic foreign policy that kills millions in order to fund their arms dealer backers (Mark Thatcher for goodness sake!)

It's like comparing murderers and thieves with people who muse aloud awkwardly about abstract concepts.

That was easy to find, it required almost no effort, I merely skimmed the piece.

I find your selective memory disappointing.

Please, go back through the forum and read me on Thatcher and the Falklands War (largely her fault) or Thatcher and the North (cure that killed the patient) or Thatcher and society (responsible for much of our modern malaise).

Aside from that, one should note that there is a profound difference between working with Tyrants during the paranoia of the Cold War and praising some of the 20th Century's greatest monsters today.

[Sarmatian]

Aside from that, one should note that there is a profound difference between working with Tyrants during the paranoia of the Cold War and praising some of the 20th Century's greatest monsters today.

And yet you subscribe to the narrative set up during the paranoia of the Cold War.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And yet you subscribe to the narrative set up during the paranoia of the Cold War.

Would you care to elaborate?

[Husar]

It all sound to me like communism had an great and strong initial push but later began to stall in terms of development.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It all sound to me like communism had an great and strong initial push but later began to stall in terms of development.

Except it really wasn't - the Communist project started with the Bolsheviks overthrowing Russia's first elected government and murdering the Tsar and his family, including his daughters who were so far down the line of succession due to Salic Law that killing them was basically just vindictive.

Fruit of the poisoned tree.

[Greyblades]

It all sound to me like communism had an great and strong initial push but later began to stall in terms of development.

Didnt it take 20 years for the USSR to get its gear together? China didnt do too well either.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Didnt it take 20 years for the USSR to get its gear together? China didnt do too well either.

My understanding was that the USSR was strong relatively quick after the revolution, until Stalin purged the ranks in the late 30s. That purge removed most of the leadership Stalin needed to fend off Hitler a few years later. If Hitler had attacked later, the ranks would have been filled again and the USSR would not have lost so much ground.

I don't know anything about China except that Mao was just totally incompetent.

[Crandar]

Except it really wasn't - the Communist project started with the Bolsheviks overthrowing Russia's first elected government and murdering the Tsar and his family, including his daughters who were so far down the line of succession due to Salic Law that killing them was basically just vindictive.

Fruit of the poisoned tree.

As the examples of Catherine and Elizabeth indicate, the girls were perfectly acceptable candidates to the throne. If they were permitted to live, then the Kolchak would turn them into a symbol of his struggle against the Soviets. Killing them was a politically necessary move. Also, Kerenski government was not elected, but on the contrary, they insisted on refusing to hold elections, until the revolution finally overthrew them.

Since 1959, the rancid dictatorship in Cuba has consistently forgotten to hold free elections, but don’t allow ideas of democratic pluralism to undermine “the historical importance of Cuba’s struggle for social justice and sovereignty and its creative social mobilisation [which] will continue to echo beyond its time and place.”

Well, it was a step forward, compared to Fulgencio and his gang of pimps.

[Brenus]

Well, it was a step forward, compared to Fulgencio and his gang of pimps.

What? It was not a blooming democracy before Castro?

[InsaneApache]

Russia, in 30 years, went from being a country of illiterate peasants and feudal lords, with a thoroughly pre modern concept of time, law, manufacturing, etc. To a country that defeated the greatest military power of the age (Germany) and was the first to send an astronaut to space.

I would be the first to list the downsides, drawbacks, tyranny and lunacy of the Soviet system. But credit where credits due.

There, in a nutshell, you have the leftist point of view. No matter how many people die for the 'greater good' it's the end of those meanie capitalists that counts!

....that they have the absolute gall to accuse the rest of us 'lumpen-proletariat' of having a false conscientious is breathtaking with it's hubris.

[Papewaio]

So no one has died for the greater good in Capitalism?

Each system has a cost/benefit associated with it and all of them are abused by the ruling class.

[Husar]

There, in a nutshell, you have the leftist point of view. No matter how many people die for the 'greater good' it's the end of those meanie capitalists that counts!

That's not what he said. He said despite the numerous downsides it also did a few things right, that's completely different from saying the ends justify the means.

[Brenus]

Don't argue. It perfectly acceptable to negotiate with murderers regimes and dictators when it is about money. We welcome the Chinese in UK now, thanks not to the horrible letfist Corbin but the nice righteous D. Cameron.
And Pinochet was a personal friend of Thatcher.