Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris

[a completely inoffensive name]

Diagnosing the problem is not hard - I did it years ago - but finding a workable solution is. I continue to believe that the solution is increasing the economic outlook in Muslim countries for everyone, not just the princes, and toppling the most brutal of the dictators when they cross the line and start openly killing their own subjects.

Toppling the dictators is literally why we have the current situation. I have no idea where you were during the Blair years, but apparently you refuse to acknowledge that Saddam, Gaddafi, and Assad were able to prevent radical Islamists from rising in their own lands. Without them, we have the current situation.

[Tuuvi]

Toppling the dictators is literally why we have the current situation. I have no idea where you were during the Blair years, but apparently you refuse to acknowledge that Saddam, Gaddafi, and Assad were able to prevent radical Islamists from rising in their own lands. Without them, we have the current situation.

I don't agree with PFH on the need to remove Middle Eastern dictators and I think it's chauvinistic to believe the ME's problems are our responsibility, but Assad is still in power and his regime wasn't able to stop the rise of jihadist factions like Al-Nusra in Syria, If anything the Assad regime just made things worse by firing on unarmed protesters and sparking the civil war. Portions of Yemen have also been taken over by Al-Qaeda and the Yemeni government is backed by the US.

[a completely inoffensive name]

From my recollection, we armed Syrian rebels to undermine Assad, and Iran has been doing the same to us in Yemen. Also, the Syrian civil war was in large part driven by climate change causing a devastating drought from 2006 to 2009. You can't say that Assad screwed everything up by itself.

[AE Bravo]

You can be honest, you know most mulims oppose these things. That is fine, a man is entitiled to his opinion. It is simply not the way the west is trending.

But it looks like it’s working out fine on that end. Not a problem to the extent that there can be no middle ground. Yes, it’s not Islamic. Who says they can’t coexist? US broke this barrier, Turkey sort of, and believe it or not the Gulf (locals and Filipinos mostly). Muslims aren’t alien to homosexuality. I don't see Russia getting this much flak.

Integration in Europe is deteriorating and its the fault of both parties.

That's all there is to say about it really.

It was a tragedy before we got involved

Yeah I bet everything is a tragedy when you're at the beacon of civilization. Please. Things were fine before you came along.

If you believe this then you're part of the problem. I'm certain not all Muslims believe this, unless all Muslims are liars.

The fact that you can't grasp this is proof of your total ignorance of these places. Shia and Sunni brothers in arms broken apart by a clueless governor who bent over to Iranian hegemony. The Persia-ification of Iraq. Arrogant power after arrogant power, only Iranians are much smarter than all the west combined.

We aren't saints but we'll still be interested in helping you after all your oil is gone, we'll probably be even nicer than we are now.

Bullshit. http://www.ecfr.eu/page/-/Responding...rtive_Gulf.pdf

I can see it now.

Arabs: "So remember when we bailed you out that time?"
Europe: "Fix your human rights issues, chump"

Never gets old. Oh and I can see China dropping Africa like a "lump of lead."

If anything the Assad regime just made things worse by firing on unarmed protesters and sparking the civil war.

After Islamists were armed by about 40 countries and planted shooters in between the crowds. Opposition in the Arab world is dirty dirty dirty.

[AE Bravo]

Also, the Syrian civil war was in large part driven by climate change causing a devastating drought from 2006 to 2009. You can't say that Assad screwed everything up by itself.

Hi Bernie.

Goodbye Bernie.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hi Bernie.

Goodbye Bernie.

You can't even put forth a counter argument. I third the notion that you bring nothing to the discussion.

[AE Bravo]

That argument doesn't warrant a counterargument. You're the one that needs to elaborate on the correlation between climate change and political dissidence in Syria.

Why don't you look up the history of droughts in Syria before hopping on bandwagons.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That argument doesn't warrant a counterargument. You're the one that needs to elaborate on the correlation between climate change and political dissidence in Syria.

Why don't you look up the history of droughts in Syria before hopping on bandwagons.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...hange-drought/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26943503

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innova...513729/?no-ist

http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/302350...risis-in-syria

It's been talked about way before Bernie had a spotlight. Why don't you go and pick flowers while they still grow.

EDIT: Sorry Hooahguy, I tried.

[Montmorency]

It should go without saying that climate disruptions (from a human perspective) are one of the primary underlying causes for "political dissidence".

North Africa and the Middle East have everything going against them as it regards social stability, though in fact that's true for most places, as for example borne out by the perennially-anxious governments of Russia and China.

The West has pretty good lands.

[Fragony]

Don't need good lands, the Netherlands is among the biggest food exporters in the world and it's a tiny country. Really advanced greenhouses aren't out of reach for these regions you just have to invest in them.

[Gilrandir]

If we have +30k of these lunatics in a geographically enclosed area.

Your data are outdated (forgive my pun). Russia claims that its bombers have destroyed 500 military infrastructure objects of ISIS. If we consider that half of the 30k ISIS fighters (15k) are in Syria and that each of the objects was guarded by at least a platoon (30 men), then 500*30= 15 000. Syria is free from ISIS (according to the Kremlin).

Yes, I think they will come to us asking for permission to preach, for they are foreigners with no right to abode here.

I'm not sure they must do it. They can cross the Channel from elsewhere as if on business of their own (can you figure out the preachers among them?), then come to the mosque and start their preaching. Alternatively, they can preach at secret meetings without any license. And, finally, who told you that they are all FOREIGNERS? I'm sure by now there are some UK citizens who can do this (consider France and Belgium as an example).

Secondly here in Northern and Eastern Europe we already have institutions for giving military training to large number of people annually, which we do. Unlike in your country where few hired service men protect the civilian population who could not protect their lunch box if their life depended on it.

The deploying surely is a problem as long as US keeps supporting Wahhabist countries like Saudi Arabia.

I'm surprised to hear such a discussion from people who have an experience of playing TW games. Such people ought to know that one of the most important factors in battles is morale. So the crucial issue about these recruits is how high their morale is likely to be.

[Kagemusha]

EU has unanimously enacted article 42.7 concerning mutual assistance if one participating country is attacked, after French request. This is the first time the article has been enacted in the history of EU.

http://www.france24.com/en/20151117-...stance-request

[Pannonian]

I'm not sure they must do it. They can cross the Channel from elsewhere as if on business of their own (can you figure out the preachers among them?), then come to the mosque and start their preaching. Alternatively, they can preach at secret meetings without any license. And, finally, who told you that they are all FOREIGNERS? I'm sure by now there are some UK citizens who can do this (consider France and Belgium as an example).

It's a fairly common complaint amongst homegrown preachers, who tend to be moderate and not very numerous, that foreign firebreathers are imported to preach their brand of hatred. Those who are radicalised tend to travel to Pakistan or other known radicalisation hotbeds to complete their "education". The process is fairly well known. Looking at the Paris attackers, it seems Syria was where they completed their "education", prior to returning to France to do their stuff.

[Fragony]

EU has unanimously enacted article 42.7 concerning mutual assistance if one participating country is attacked, after French request. This is the first time the article has been enacted in the history of EU.

http://www.france24.com/en/20151117-...stance-request

That's a nice way to sneak in something on top of what already exists but fails, I am sure it sounds reasonable. The answer to the failling of the EU is always the same, more EU. Merkel lead the way, wir schaffen das. Dumb plumb eastblock farmhorese, wir schaffen das nicht, go to a cloister and have a messias-complex there kthxbye

[Kagemusha]

That's a nice way to sneak in something on top of what already exists but fails, I am sure it sounds reasonable. The answer to the failling of the EU is always the same, more EU. Merkel lead the way, wir schaffen das. Dumb plumb eastblock farmhorese, wir schaffen das nicht, go to a cloister and have a messias-complex there kthxbye

I dont know why France is not calling the invocation of NATO article 5, but enacting this one. This could be nothing, too early to say.

[Fragony]

I dont know why France is not calling the invocation of NATO article 5, but enacting this one. This could be nothing, too early to say.

I already know what's going to happen. Law-enforcers from the east are going to be situated in the west and vica-versa, the only thing the EU wants is more EU

[Kagemusha]

Russia has just struck ISIS at Raqqa with long range bombers and cruise missiles from Mediterranean. Apparently this time they have notified US and France of their intentions.

https://www.rt.com/news/322413-russi...mediterranean/

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yeah I bet everything is a tragedy when you're at the beacon of civilization. Please. Things were fine before you came along.

Your assumption that we don't care because we aren't constantly wringing our hands is faulty.

You missed all the arguments about this a few years ago - at this point it's like watching a car crash repeatedly in very slow motions. As terrible as it is there's no point constantly saying "oh woe, oh that the world was kinder to man".

The fact that you can't grasp this is proof of your total ignorance of these places. Shia and Sunni brothers in arms broken apart by a clueless governor who bent over to Iranian hegemony. The Persia-ification of Iraq. Arrogant power after arrogant power, only Iranians are much smarter than all the west combined.

So Arabs hate all non Arabs? Your argument here is, at best, confused.

Bullshit. http://www.ecfr.eu/page/-/Responding...rtive_Gulf.pdf

I can see it now.

Arabs: "So remember when we bailed you out that time?"
Europe: "Fix your human rights issues, chump"

Never gets old. Oh and I can see China dropping Africa like a "lump of lead."

Errr.

Yes, fix your human rights issues - we'll be happy to help.

Of course, you'd rather continue to live the good life using Indians as slave labour and Texans to drill your oil - if you have any mines I assume you use the Cornish to dig those.

China will drop Africa as soon as Africa has nothing to offer in materials, they are really only developing Africa's infrastructure to extract those materials, the average African miner isn't better off - he might be worse off because the mines are taking bigger and bigger risks.

Russia started TWO wars with Ukraine using proxies just because of paranoia and China is worse, they lock people up and send them to forced labour camps just for having an unsanctioned religion. China itself is a mess, anyway, there are numerous examples of poorly built Chinese infrastructure breaking down and people dying.

[Greyblades]

China itself is a mess, anyway, there are numerous examples of poorly built Chinese infrastructure breaking down and people dying.

Their products aren't that much better; Chinese swivel chairs occasionally explode when sat on.

I'm not even joking, the elevation mechanism under the seat uses trapped air to maintain height and with domestic Chinese quality control being what it is the seals are known to fail at high pressure. The lucky ones just lose a chair, occasionally they fail in such a way that metal is driven upwards through the seat.

[Husar]

Not to forget the iPhones, couldn't think of a bigger failure of a product. Several people have already died trying to take selfies with them, horrible safety record.

[Pannonian]

Not to forget the iPhones, couldn't think of a bigger failure of a product. Several people have already died trying to take selfies with them, horrible safety record.

If you're arguing that China has perfectly adequate quality control regulations, then I think the Chinese themselves would disagree with you.

[Husar]

If you're arguing that China has perfectly adequate quality control regulations, then I think the Chinese themselves would disagree with you.

When I told this Chinese girl that Germans deem Chinese goods to be of inferior quality, she seemed offended.
As for what I mean, I'm not sure, maybe I just like anecdotal evidence or exploding accumulators...

In other news: Politics, politics never change...
http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpos...st-regio-11534

[Pannonian]

When I told this Chinese girl that Germans deem Chinese goods to be of inferior quality, she seemed offended.
As for what I mean, I'm not sure, maybe I just like anecdotal evidence or exploding accumulators...

In other news: Politics, politics never change...
http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpos...st-regio-11534

See the milk powder scandal. After that, those Chinese who could afford it no longer trusted products made in China, preferring instead to buy from Hong Kong (with its British-established regulations). This led to a shortage of said product in Hong Kong for resident Hong Kongers, adding to the ill will between the territory and the mainland. Generally, Chinese who can afford it prefer Hong Kong-made products because of its tighter and reliable regulations.

[Strike For The South]

But it looks like it’s working out fine on that end. Not a problem to the extent that there can be no middle ground. Yes, it’s not Islamic. Who says they can’t coexist? US broke this barrier, Turkey sort of, and believe it or not the Gulf (locals and Filipinos mostly). Muslims aren’t alien to homosexuality. I don't see Russia getting this much flak.
.

Because we aren't talking about Russia?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Football stadium in Hanover has been evacuated due to suspicions that a terrorist attack in the city was imminent.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...b0e98c91b0d316

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not to forget the iPhones, couldn't think of a bigger failure of a product. Several people have already died trying to take selfies with them, horrible safety record.

The Chinese are capable of building things to a high standard but they won't bother if they can get away with it.

Just like they can be nice and helpful, but won't bother if they can get away with it.

Football stadium in Hanover has been evacuated due to suspicions that a terrorist attack in the city was imminent.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...b0e98c91b0d316

Yesterday they evacuated the shopping centre in my little city. I get the sense we're in much more danger than we realise, save that we are usually saved by the security services. Obviously someone dropped the ball over Paris.

[AE Bravo]

The drought angle makes it look like opposition was inspired by this but Arab countries have begun importing water long ago, this is inevitable. What did we expect cutting off Syria and strip it of its opportunity to at least do something about it like the rest of the ME?
Shifting responsibility.

So Arabs hate all non Arabs? Your argument here is, at best, confused.

Yeah keep talking out of your butt over legit points. Do you think Iraqis enjoy their govt institutions and their superiors being outsiders? People they went to war with? They're calling it an Iranian province.

Yes, fix your human rights issues - we'll be happy to help.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ern-day-slaves
I hope they are fixed. In the meantime take this money and stay quiet about it. You can use it as an excuse to not pay your debts later. I would list all the agreements Britain and the west broke in the ME but why bother.

Russia started TWO wars with Ukraine using proxies just because of paranoia

Russia is tied to Ukraine, different politics in the ME.

China itself is a mess, anyway, there are numerous examples of poorly built Chinese infrastructure breaking down and people dying.

Over the years they have proven to be the most rational power. Full respect for sovereignty of distant countries.

[Hooahguy]

Russia and France are teaming up to fight ISIS.


Also, not looking at anyone in particular but everyone needs to think before they post a personal attack. I already shut down one thread because of it and I do not want to have to do it again. Ive been lax about enforcing rules so far but if need be I will crack down like what happened two months ago.

[Strike For The South]

Terror perpetrated by fascists

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/vict...paris-attacks/

[Papewaio]

Well ISIS would count as a facist organization.