Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris

[Crandar]

All Islamists are Wahhabis.

Not necessarily. Talibans, for example, are influenced by deobandism.

[Papewaio]

The exact opposite is true. Oilmen in the US are known for being the antithesis of any sort of zealotry. Next time it would be easier just to insult Texas rather than have a paragraph to nowhere.

Right because only Texas has oil. It is known as having a huge influence over school education books and that is normally noted as adding Creationist ideas to biological text. It is also known that Texas has some of the more easier juries for patent troll approval.

But it is also seen in Western Australia and Queensland which are mineral rich but more religious and paranoid about the other ie One Nation in Queensland vs Western Sydney.

I don't really know what to say to this other than you are making science a religion in itself. By your own admission these men are quite apt at gaining STEM degrees. I would argue that STEM rewards the rigid thinking that most fundamentalists follow. Although, I don't ascribe any special qualities to STEM as a whole.

Science is only one of the parts. Rigid thinking isn't part of science it is the antithesis of it. I'll leave absolute answers to those who need the security blanket of fairy tales.

Crush the myth of multiculturalism. Follow an assimilation model or severely limit the number of immigrants taken in.

That's what the extremists want on both sides. It doesn't help the moderates one bit.

The whabbis have spoken and the madrasas have been built. We can't put the genie back in the bottle. Its also rather myopic to think the whabbis have more influence than any other kind Islamist.

And cutting the funding is a much better to do now then wait for the next generation of mindless drones.

[Fragony]

It's kinda funny, people who used to be be upset of things I said are now much harsher than I ever was

Warning, not fun to watch http://www.powned.tv/nieuws/foto/201...oomt_leeg.html

No death but total panic

[Pannonian]

Right because only Texas has oil. It is known as having a huge influence over school education books and that is normally noted as adding Creationist ideas to biological text. It is also known that Texas has some of the more easier juries for patent troll approval.

But it is also seen in Western Australia and Queensland which are mineral rich but more religious and paranoid about the other ie One Nation in Queensland vs Western Sydney.



Science is only one of the parts. Rigid thinking isn't part of science it is the antithesis of it. I'll leave absolute answers to those who need the security blanket of fairy tales.


That's what the extremists want on both sides. It doesn't help the moderates one bit.

Islamists operate on a different paradigm to us "westerners". There is no moderation where there is no common form of communication. The best we can do is control radicalisation. Stop anyone who's been to the radicalisation centres (countrywise) from returning. And restrict who can preach here. If that outrages our ingrained liberal values, so be it. Liberalism cannot function when a group antithetical to liberal understanding or even the roots of liberalism uses liberal loopholes to further their case. As I said a couple of years ago, the USSR was never the same kind of threat that Islamists are because, by and large, we communicated in the same cultural and diplomatic language. They were opponents, but they were never aliens in the same way that Islamists are. And unlike cultural aliens, who are simply different, Islamists seek to impose their state on us.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

All Islamists are Wahhabis.

"All Heretics are Protestants".

It must be nice to be able to completely divorce yourselves from the monsters who kill in your name.

The Reaction of Hollande has been a little worrying, English translations of his first speech include the word "merciless" with regards to France's reaction.

[Fragony]

The Reaction of Hollande has been a little worrying, English translations of his first speech include the word "merciless" with regards to France's reaction.

Not smart, with things like this you must keep your cools, perfectly harmless muslims could be subject of mob-rule.

[wooly_mammoth]

Someone should tell that delusional midget to shut the taff up. Somehow, he keeps threatening the terrorists with his righteous wrath and they keep catching him with his pants down.

[Fisherking]

@Papewaio

I don’t guess you see the fallacy in you argument.

Oil is only a commodity. Your whole argument is off the mark.

The threat is an ideology. Financing source is immaterial.

The wealthy and powerful will always find others to do their bidding.

To destroy the funding source you eventually have to destroy the states which provide the power behind it.

[Fragony]

IS just claimed attack. What's worrying is that they according to witnesses were fluent in French. So from ALgeria or homegrown.

[Pannonian]

@Papewaio

I don’t guess you see the fallacy in you argument.

Oil is only a commodity. Your whole argument is off the mark.

The threat is an ideology. Financing source is immaterial.

The wealthy and powerful will alway find others to do their bidding.

To destroy the funding source you eventually have to destroy the states which provide the power behind it.

Or prevent the radlicalisation centres like Pakistan and others from accepting oil money to fund their training camps. Which we have no right to do so as they're sovereign countries. The best we can do whilst minimising the amount of change we have to make is probably the control scenario I described above. It still infringes on existing liberties, but it does so for people who are going to known dodgy countries, and it allows existing Muslims the option of either staying with their western countries, or follow their Islamic identity abroad.

[Idaho]

The price of our middle east wars will be these relatively small flowering of violence. It's a tragedy, an outrage and a crime. It's also just a tiny sample of what has been happening in Afghanistan,Iraq and Syria. All those refugees are running from atrocities like this that have destroyed their homes and communities.

Out governments didn't create these groups. They didn't write their ideologies. But they prepared the ground. They fed the soil. And they paid and maintained the systems that brought them into being.

What's my point? That the tough talk, violence and oppression that will be enacted because of this terrible attack will not help.

[Fisherking]

Or prevent the radlicalisation centres like Pakistan and others from accepting oil money to fund their training camps. Which we have no right to do so as they're sovereign countries. The best we can do whilst minimising the amount of change we have to make is probably the control scenario I described above. It still infringes on existing liberties, but it does so for people who are going to known dodgy countries, and it allows existing Muslims the option of either staying with their western countries, or follow their Islamic identity abroad.

I haven’t the time ATM to show where your earlier idea is wrong. Maybe later. RL calls.

[Pannonian]

The price of our middle east wars will be these relatively small flowering of violence. It's a tragedy, an outrage and a crime. It's also just a tiny sample of what has been happening in Afghanistan,Iraq and Syria. All those refugees are running from atrocities like this that have destroyed their homes and communities.

Out governments didn't create these groups. They didn't write their ideologies. But they prepared the ground. They fed the soil. And they paid and maintained the systems that brought them into being.

What's my point? That the tough talk, violence and oppression that will be enacted because of this terrible attack will not help.

I wish we don't do any kind of talk at all. No talk of imposing democracy and freedom or other outside concepts in places where we're not welcome. No admission of Syrians or other Muslim outsides either. They can have their world. We can have ours. Whatever happens in their world will have nothing to do with us, whether for better or for worse.

[Idaho]

The point is that you can't impose democracy. Democracy is the will of the people. You have to ACCEPT democracy.

When the gazans elect hamas we have to accept democracy and work with it. In Iran we defended a dictator against the democratic will and when that will exploded we were left with the mess that is modern Iran. In Saudi we did the same and created a state that exported radical politicised islam. Etc. It's all so tedious and repetitive.

[Pannonian]

The point is that you can't impose democracy. Democracy is the will of the people. You have to ACCEPT democracy.

When the gazans elect hamas we have to accept democracy and work with it. In Iran we defended a dictator against the democratic will and when that will exploded we were left with the mess that is modern Iran. In Saudi we did the same and created a state that exported radical politicised islam. Etc. It's all so tedious and repetitive.

So let us stop here. Rather tan agonise over what we've done in the past, which we can't do squat to correct, as our every action is considered wrong in some way or other, we should just raise our borders to the Muslim world, which is where most of the trouble comes from. What they do in their world is their business, and none of ours. If anyone then chooses to become part of that world, let them; just don't allow them back. I was raised a liberal, and in most respects I remain one, and I opposed the attack on Iraq. But I'm tired of (far right) Muslims taking offence at our every action, and bleeding heart liberals telling me to be guilty about things I had nothing to do with. I enjoy the many cultures that London contains, and I wouldn't want to homogenise it. But there are some positions that are antithetical to the liberal world that I love. Islamism is one.

[Fragony]

The point is that you can't impose democracy. Democracy is the will of the people. You have to ACCEPT democracy.

When the gazans elect hamas we have to accept democracy and work with it. In Iran we defended a dictator against the democratic will and when that will exploded we were left with the mess that is modern Iran. In Saudi we did the same and created a state that exported radical politicised islam. Etc. It's all so tedious and repetitive.

Are you going to respect the will of parties that strongly disagree with immigration? Not directed at you but the (radical) left has their 'ground-troops' so to say. Islamism wouldn't be a problem in the west without multiculturalists.

[Kagemusha]

Apparently one of the attackers had a Syrian passport. Like i have been saying from the start in the Isis thread. We cant defend from terrorists who hate everything we are and they are poised to succeed with their attacks every once a while.

Only way to deal with these nazis of Islamic world is to deploy at Syria and Iraq and either bring to justice or kill every last one of these lunatics. More we wait harder it will become.

[Brenus]

"France lost this war when the sons and grandsons of immigrants were ostracized from society. This chapter has already been written."
Minister of Justice: Rachida Dhati: Typical ostracized immigrants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachida_Dati
Rama Ayad: Another one oppressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama_Yade
Najat Vallaud-Belkacem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najat_Vallaud-Belkacem

My dear, if the Islamist attack France it is because France represents all what they hate. France embraces life when they embrace death, France values liberty, they value slavery, France values equality, they value discrimination, France values Fraternity, they value racism.
France embraces science, secularism, they prefer superstition and obscurantism.
To summary it, let give me the message from a caricaturist Joann SFAR:
"Friends from the whole World, thanks you for your #pray for Paris, but we don't need more Religion! Our faith goes to music! Kisses! Life! Champagne! Joy! Paris is about life".

They value death, so they attack life

[Fragony]

Apparently one of the attackers had a Syrian passport. Like i have been saying from the start in the Isis thread. We cant defend from terrorists who hate everything we are and they are poised to succeed with their attacks every once a while.

Only way to deal with these nazis of Islamic world is to deploy at Syria and Iraq and either bring to justice or kill every last one of these lunatics. More we wait harder it will become.

Syrian pasport means nothing, 500 a pop for a Syrian pasport in Turkey, 600 for an AK in Brussels.

[Kagemusha]

Syrian pasport means nothing, 500 a pop for a Syrian pasport in Turkey, 600 for an AK in Brussels.

Yes and what does it matter if you can get one cheap? Are you claiming this is some sort of conspiracy to frame IS?

[Fragony]

Yes and what does it matter if you can get one cheap? Are you claiming this is some sort of conspiracy to frame IS?

No Turkish maffia just jumped in, Forged Syrian pasports is big business there, nobody has any idea who's who here. Mutti Theresa invited them and that's really all I want to say right now. My thoughts are at the misery of those who had to see all this right now

[Strike For The South]

All Islamists are Wahhabis.

Bullshit. Once again, you add nothing of value to the discussion.

Right because only Texas has oil. It is known as having a huge influence over school education books and that is normally noted as adding Creationist ideas to biological text. It is also known that Texas has some of the more easier juries for patent troll approval.

I don't disagree with any of that but that evangelical streak is found mostly among the poor and has its roots in British immigration that made its way west across the old south and eventually settled in East Texas. The Germans in Central Texas and The Mexicans in South Texas have always found east Texans to be a strange breed.

An oilmans religion is capitalism. The megachurches make their money mostly off of poor whites and recent minority converts, it is one of the reasons why they are pushing Spanish services so hard. The presence of evangelical Christianity and mineral resources does not necessarily go hand in hand.

But it is also seen in Western Australia and Queensland which are mineral rich but more religious and paranoid about the other ie One Nation in Queensland vs Western Sydney.

I find Australian accents grating. #TeamDingo.

Science is only one of the parts. Rigid thinking isn't part of science it is the antithesis of it

Science is very analytical and very rigid relative to other subjects. If this then that easily resonates with a rigid thinker. Once again most terrorists have turned out to be highly educated in STEM fields.

I'll leave absolute answers to those who need the security blanket of fairy tales

.
I could do without the 18 year edgy teenager skipping mass

And cutting the funding is a much better to do now then wait for the next generation of mindless drones.

Cutting the funding won't step any of this. It's a contagion and it's already spread.

[Idaho]

So let us stop here. Rather tan agonise over what we've done in the past, which we can't do squat to correct, as our every action is considered wrong in some way or other, we should just raise our borders to the Muslim world, which is where most of the trouble comes from. What they do in their world is their business, and none of ours. If anyone then chooses to become part of that world, let them; just don't allow them back. I was raised a liberal, and in most respects I remain one, and I opposed the attack on Iraq. But I'm tired of (far right) Muslims taking offence at our every action, and bleeding heart liberals telling me to be guilty about things I had nothing to do with. I enjoy the many cultures that London contains, and I wouldn't want to homogenise it. But there are some positions that are antithetical to the liberal world that I love. Islamism is one.

All I see here is emotional response. Why do you give a crap what right wing Muslims get offended by? And who is asking you to feel guilty?

Look at the situation rationally. What are it's causes? Then start to work out what needs to be done. The same knee jerk responses are coming out from the same mouths. Insanity is doing the same thing again and again while expecting different results.

[Pannonian]

All I see here is emotional response. Why do you give a crap what right wing Muslims get offended by? And who is asking you to feel guilty?

Look at the situation rationally. What are it's causes? Then start to work out what needs to be done. The same knee jerk responses are coming out from the same mouths. Insanity is doing the same thing again and again while expecting different results.

The causes are radicalised Muslims, often homegrown, but usually passing through radicalisation centres in Pakistan or other places abroad. Once they get to this stage, there is no re-assimilation possible. So cut the trouble at the stage where they get to be radicalised abroad, and cut the sources of radicalisation at home by restricting what can be preached here, mainly by restricting who can preach here.

As for why I should give a crap what right wing Muslims get offended by, it's because it's the trigger by which already radicalised Muslims find the excuse to perform or plan their latest atrocity. There is no rhyme and reason to cutting the sources of offence for such, because it's already got to the stage where they're looking for an excuse, any excuse, to perform their act. Bleeding heart liberals point to what we do or don't do abroad as why we should feel guilty about provoking such actions, but there is no escaping the route down which these idiots have already decided to go. Whatever we do or don't do, is pointed to as evidence of our guilt, both by these radicalised Muslims (and their allies abroad), and the bleeding heart liberals at home. As such, these arguments are practically irrelevant. They do nothing to stop these acts. The only way to stop them is to stop the radicalisation process in the first place, or to keep their adherents from coming here.

[Idaho]

Do you suppose that it is realistically possible to conduct a widespread war across a large area of the globe, while keeping your own local corner of the world free from any war like events?

[Pannonian]

Do you suppose that it is realistically possible to conduct a widespread war across a large area of the globe, while keeping your own local corner of the world free from any war like events?

I'd prefer us not to conduct any war at all. I was against the Iraq war, as I stated above. I was against intervention in Syria. I am against intervention in Ukraine. And everywhere else where people are appealing to our sense of "right". The Iraqis, Syrians, and everyone else can do as they like in their patch of the world; I care not. And in return, I wish that they would not trouble us with their issues; I care not. Do something, as in Iraq, and the west is criticised for doing something. Do nothing, as in Syria, and the west is criticised for doing nothing. I favour doing nothing, and blocking their nationals from entering our land, as at least that would be cheaper and would get the same result of them hating us.

[Idaho]

I think you're being emotional and resorting to absolutes.

You are seeing everything in terms of us and them. Neither of which are remotely simple and cohesive groups. The majority of "them" have no interest whatsoever in "us". They get on with their lives.

Warzones generate these groups. Mujahaddin were generated by the Russian afghan war. Taleban by the subsequent civil war. AQ from a mix of the two plus Saudi political oppression. Mahdi army and IS by the Iraq war. Now the Syrian war creates and proliferated more.

Guns, training, propaganda, grievance. Those are the soil and growing conditions for terror attacks. The simplest way to generate all is to create Warzones.

[Husar]

Is it really any surprise that they are targeting Paris?
They blew up a plane with 224 Russians and people asked "Will Putin become more barbarian now?"
Now they killed 150 people in Paris and all of Facebook is changing profile pictures and crying "We are not affected at all".
If I were a terrorist, I'd plan my next attack in Paris to see all the people I hate cry...

[Montmorency]

Guns, training, propaganda, grievance. Those are the soil and growing conditions for terror attacks. The simplest way to generate all is to create Warzones.

The irony, and the core of the problem, is that the West does not have a monopoly on war.

Strike is correct to call Islamism a "contagion". At this point there is nothing we can do other than to let the violence run its course.

The point is that you can't impose peace. Peace is the will of the people. You have to ACCEPT peace.

[Montmorency]

Is it really any surprise that they are targeting Paris?
They blew up a plane with 224 Russians and people asked "Will Putin become more barbarian now?"
Now they killed 150 people in Paris and all of Facebook is changing profile pictures and crying "We are not affected at all".
If I were a terrorist, I'd plan my next attack in Paris to see all the people I hate cry...

They should target Berlin so that Merkel can use the incident to take on certain emergency powers...