Rise of The Snake Cult [Concluded]

[El Barto]

I can confirm the above statement by johnhughthumb. That individual is no gentleman, thus, he wouldn't be able to carry on with a gentleman's agreement with Lady Weston-Hoges' nephew.

Also, being much of a gentleman myself, I stand by my earlier words and vote: Cass_

[Cass_]

** Anybody know why quotes aren't getting added to my reply box? (Doesn't matter which of the quote buttons I click, nothing new is getting added).


I didn't think Beskar was playing the 'in the dark townie thing' initially - #52 'Never heard of anti-claim mechanics other than getting night killed or lynched for claiming before' read more knowing than spacey to me, but the fact his second question was 'what's a closed setup?' (#95) pushes it a bit.

@Beskar - how many games have you played?

I don't see anything suspicious about Raith's speculation that players may have more mechanical knowledge.
I like the way Raith handled Al Sipsclar's vote etc and the fact that he later prodded inactives.

I agree with Al Sipsclar in #88 that it's better to be active and stir the pot. However, I can't tell how serious he is with his votes so far and if he's serious I'm not a fan of the votes/reasoning for votes on Raith or Edse, or the way he switched to Edse after people didn't follow him on Raith. I do recognise this could be just looking for a response.

@Al Sipsclar - What made you lean Town on Winston in the middle of your vote on Raith in post #59 ? At that point he'd made like three posts.


On others:
@El Barto - Are you playing seriously yet? Literally all of your responses (#80

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OMGUS! :P

and #81, #84) have been tongue-in-cheek and not much else. Is that a thing for you/here on D1?

[Al Sipsclar]

Vote: Cass_. You're posting, but not voting. Why?

My leans are just my reads. More the intuition than the hard science. And this is just D1, there's nothing much to go on yet.
Also, El Barto is always unreadable.

[El Barto]

Lol no but Monsieur visor needs to stop randing mafia in turbos.

He's not mafia, he's third party!

Unvote; Vote:El Brato

I do not consider that a valid vote.

So to understand some of you better. I'm going to ask 2 questions to kind of understand where you are coming from.

1. If you are scum how would you approach a closed setup?

2. If you are town how would you approach a closed setup?

1: Kill the town, win.
2: Kill the mafia, win.

Vote: Cass_. You're posting, but not voting. Why?

My leans are just my reads. More the intuition than the hard science. And this is just D1, there's nothing much to go on yet.
Also, El Barto is always unreadable.

Whaat? I post in English using the Latin alphabet. I could be using other languages and/or alphabets at you. But, still, at least you follow reason and vote for Cass_.

[Cass_]

Vote: Cass_. 1. You're posting, but not voting. Why?

2. My leans are just my reads. More the intuition than the hard science. And this is just D1, there's nothing much to go on yet.
3 Also, El Barto is always unreadable.

Yey! quotes work! Added numbers for easy reference

1). Because I don't feel I have enough to go on to say someone's actually scummy yet - see your own comment in 2) and add in the fact I don't know how any of you traditionally play. Communication's important to me in this game. I typically look for things that I think have potential for scummy motive, question them and wait for the responses before I cast a vote.

Can you confirm if 2). was in response to my question about your Town read of Winston? If so, that was kind of my point - it seems weird to me to call someone Town with so little to go on ITT and I'm trying to understand if you have meta/Town tells on Winston that I wouldn't be aware of.

3). Can you elaborate? As in he never posts anything but jokes?

[Raith Kemmler]

Because I don't feel I have enough to go on to say someone's actually scummy yet - see your own comment in 2) and add in the fact I don't know how any of you traditionally play.

Meta's kind of a trap like that. It's too useful until you don't have it. You must have someone to settle on. Anyone. The vaguest idea? Someone you'd be at peace dying here if everyone else looked decent.

[El Barto]

Yes, but they didn't tell the internet here to stay up yesterday, unfortunately.

Vote:El barto doesn't seem very good right now. Can read through in more detail at another point.

Why do you cast a vote that -we both agree- is not a good vote?

At least we've managed to avoid the snake puns.

He'd managed to escape notice until you made that post. He won't wriggle out of that now!

Double posting cool here?

Didn't see anything on the forum rules...

Within limits, yes. Making one or two long-ish posts is considered better than making six posts in a row. This forum allows and encourages multioquoting.

3). Can you elaborate? As in he never posts anything but jokes?

I beg your pardon? My answers to ScarlettAria were 100% serious. Or maybe 99.99% serious.

[Cuthillius]

Why do you cast a vote that -we both agree- is not a good vote?

Tell me more.

[Al Sipsclar]

Yey! quotes work! Added numbers for easy reference

1). Because I don't feel I have enough to go on to say someone's actually scummy yet - see your own comment in 2) and add in the fact I don't know how any of you traditionally play. Communication's important to me in this game. I typically look for things that I think have potential for scummy motive, question them and wait for the responses before I cast a vote.

Can you confirm if 2). was in response to my question about your Town read of Winston? If so, that was kind of my point - it seems weird to me to call someone Town with so little to go on ITT and I'm trying to understand if you have meta/Town tells on Winston that I wouldn't be aware of.

3). Can you elaborate? As in he never posts anything but jokes?

It's day one. No one should look scummy yet. 5 bucks says that a hapless townie is going to be lynched today, and mafia don't even have to participate in the lynch. They would pull all the tricks to avoid the responsibility. They may happily vote off the wagon or for each other. But sometimes they have to move their vote to avoid being lynched on D1. So, voting early and seeing who voted who and when is important. It is your duty as a townie.

My read on Winston is totally metagamish and not a very definitive one. I might be totally wrong. El Barto is always very entertaining, but hard to tell for me if he's scummy. The only tell I have for him is that the more active he is, the more chances are he's town.

[Cass_]

This whole post gives me heebie jeebies.

It's day one. No one should look scummy yet. 5 bucks says that a hapless townie is going to be lynched today, and mafia don't even have to participate in the lynch. They would pull all the tricks to avoid the responsibility. They may happily vote off the wagon or for each other. But sometimes they have to move their vote to avoid being lynched on D1. So, voting early and seeing who voted who and when is important. It is your duty as a townie.

*Hands over 5 bucks* :/

What do you make of who voted who and when?

[Al Sipsclar]

This whole post gives me heebie jeebies.



*Hands over 5 bucks* :/

What do you make of who voted who and when?

Not much, unfortunately, that was pretty random. Your wagon on me was rather admirable, though. :)

[Beskar]

I didn't think Beskar was playing the 'in the dark townie thing' initially - #52 'Never heard of anti-claim mechanics other than getting night killed or lynched for claiming before' read more knowing than spacey to me, but the fact his second question was 'what's a closed setup?' (#95) pushes it a bit.

@Beskar - how many games have you played?

I played regularly on the Org around.. 3 years ago? First time after a long break.

First question is I have never had a game where someone claimed something in-game have in resulting on GM effects on their roles, which is an interesting idea but I have never experienced that in a game before so I am unfamiliar with such a set-up being used.

Second one you pointed out, I was unfamiliar with the term "closed set-up" so I was asking for clarity if it meant "not communicating outside of thread" or simply "unknown quantity of roles" which it was clarified as. So it seems if I used my initial assumption, I would have been answering incorrectly. The latter I usually put that down as 'typical Org mafia game' as we rarely played vanilla, especially in my games.

Eitherway, I am not clueless or intending to be as such.

[Cass_]

Sorry, meant to get back earlier but hectic day.

Meta's kind of a trap like that. It's too useful until you don't have it. You must have someone to settle on. Anyone. The vaguest idea? Someone you'd be at peace dying here if everyone else looked decent.

Yes. At this point I was thinking gun to head [v]Al Sipsclar[/v] for the reasons previously mentioned, the way he answered my questions/didn't answer questions about his read on Winston later on.

I understand El Barto will be difficult to read, but he amuses me and I'm finding if you look carefully he is kind of making some points - and they're more observations than really driving lynches towards low hanging fruite so I'm happy to keep him around for now. I'm guessing activity/voting patterns in later days will be key to figuring him out.

Beskar answered my questions fully here

I played regularly on the Org around.. 3 years ago? First time after a long break.

First question is I have never had a game where someone claimed something in-game have in resulting on GM effects on their roles, which is an interesting idea but I have never experienced that in a game before so I am unfamiliar with such a set-up being used.

Second one you pointed out, I was unfamiliar with the term "closed set-up" so I was asking for clarity if it meant "not communicating outside of thread" or simply "unknown quantity of roles" which it was clarified as. So it seems if I used my initial assumption, I would have been answering incorrectly. The latter I usually put that down as 'typical Org mafia game' as we rarely played vanilla, especially in my games.

Eitherway, I am not clueless or intending to be as such.

The response is essentially null but at least he outright said he's not clueless or intending to be - ergo, he's not hiding behind that and even if he was he can't now because he'll be caught out. I'm not sure yet whether he's more likely scummy or low hanging fruit. My next step is to look at vote trains (I know, I'm cutting it close).

You say that it's not a good vote. I consider all votes on me to be bad votes, by definition. So, we agree that it's not a good vote.

I am unaware of what PAFO stands for, my fair lady.

Yes, it's Play and Find Out. I like a challenge so ok for now!

It's day one. No one should look scummy yet. 5 bucks says that a hapless townie is going to be lynched today, and mafia don't even have to participate in the lynch. They would pull all the tricks to avoid the responsibility. They may happily vote off the wagon or for each other. But sometimes they have to move their vote to avoid being lynched on D1. So, voting early and seeing who voted who and when is important. It is your duty as a townie.

My read on Winston is totally metagamish and not a very definitive one. I might be totally wrong. El Barto is always very entertaining, but hard to tell for me if he's scummy. The only tell I have for him is that the more active he is, the more chances are he's town.

I don't disagree with the top stuff. But I do find it strange that with all the talk of the importance of voting, your vote remains on me. Why? You put it there after I highlighted your voting anyone who FoS'd you and you haven't taken it off even though I think I've done a good job of explaining my thought process and my concerns. The vote on Raith could have been Towny pressure to reaction fish, but the vote on Edse and I just feel too opportunistic/OMGUS.

[Scarlett Aria]

I agree with Cass on El making points. I don't think he should be lynched as he will probably have a lot to say later on. He reminds me of my unreadableness on my home site.

[Cass_]

0 Khaan:
0 Nightbringer:
1 John: Winston Hughes
1 Scarlett: Autolycus
1 Winston: Johnhughthom
1 Cass: El Barto
1 Severing Viper: Zain
1 Cass: Al Sipsclar
2 Raith: Viper, Nightbringer
2 GeneralHankerchief: Beskar, Raith Kemmler*
2 Cuthillius: GoldenKnight, Jarema
2 El Barto: Cuthillius, seireikhaan*

3 Al Sipsclar: edse, Scarlett*, Cass*
3 Beskar: Landlubber, Csargo, GeneralHankerchief*


This is the vote count as I have it at the moment.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've had no sleep in over 24 hours and I don't normally do this sort of stuff, please don't trample me if it's wrong!

. The * are people who moved since the last vote count. Unless something changes, I think Besker is getting lynched here (?is this right?).

[Cass_]

I agree with Cass on El making points. I don't think he should be lynched as he will probably have a lot to say later on. He reminds me of my unreadableness on my home site.

Heh. He reminds me a little bit of a cross between Yates and Moonius tbh. Plus maybe some NotBob, but I don't think you know him.

Is anyone else around?

[Scarlett Aria]

Heh. He reminds me a little bit of a cross between Yates and Moonius tbh. Plus maybe some NotBob, but I don't think you know him.

Is anyone else around?

How do you see moonious?

[Cass_]

Vote: Al Sipsclar

OmgIfailbutIswearI'mnotasscummyasIlookhere. Adding it anyway in case someone wants to hammer over Beskar.

[seireikhaan]

The response is essentially null but at least he outright said he's not clueless or intending to be - ergo, he's not hiding behind that and even if he was he can't now because he'll be caught out. I'm not sure yet whether he's more likely scummy or low hanging fruit. My next step is to look at vote trains (I know, I'm cutting it close).

For what it's worth, I and I'm pretty sure at least a few others were pretty clueless on what exactly you meant by that. Been playing here since '07(though not as long as certain others), and have never seen people refer to setups as open or closed before. Just one of those little meta things that different places have. Believe me, if Beskar had tried pretending he was a noob, that would have been a *very* transparent tactic.

[Visor]

Tally:
EB (Cuth, Khaan
JHT (WH
RK (Sev, Night
Scarlet (Auto
Khaan (GH
Beskar (GH, Csargo
AL SIps (edse, Scarlet, Cass
GH (Beskar, Raith, EB
Cuth (GK, Jarema
WH (JHT
Cass ( Al Sips
Sev (Zain

[Visor]

Cuth 2
Beskar 3
El Barto 2
Severing 1
Al Sips 3
General 3
Cass 1
JHT 1
Raith 2
Scarlett 1
Winston 1


Should be the tally. Let me see who reached three first out of GH, Al Sips and Beskar.

[Visor]

Okay, Beskar reached three before GH and Al Sips, so he is lynched.

(GH reached 3 first, then Beskar, then GH went to 4, then back down to 3, so therefore Beskar was lynched over GH.

I'm going to change the tie rules as that was a goddamn pain.

From now on, there will be a tiebreaking period after the lynch where the next vote/unvote will decide.

Time for the writeup.

[Al Sipsclar]

I don't disagree with the top stuff. But I do find it strange that with all the talk of the importance of voting, your vote remains on me. Why? You put it there after I highlighted your voting anyone who FoS'd you and you haven't taken it off even though I think I've done a good job of explaining my thought process and my concerns. The vote on Raith could have been Towny pressure to reaction fish, but the vote on Edse and I just feel too opportunistic/OMGUS.

My vote remained on you because you still didn't vote. I believe it's extremely unhelpful to town to hold votes until the very end. I actually care less about what people say to explain their thought process, because this is the game of deception and backstabbing. Their actions (votes and night actions) are more important to me.

I also don't hesitate to OMGUS anyone who I disagree with, or to make a point. I was making a point to edse that his argument equally applied back to him.

[Raith Kemmler]

Cuthillius: Is Scarlett normally a gimmick type player?

[Cuthillius]

Cuthillius: Is Scarlett normally a gimmick type player?

Meh. She's normally a pretty solid reasonable town. Not particularly unusual in any way. Good player, though.

[El Barto]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

So you're admitting to being Mafia partners wih him, then?

With the entire day falling on the weekend, I expect to see low activity.

As if we had lives to begin with!

Kill speculation doesn't usually bear fruit in my experience. Especially in a closed set up. Maybe he looked like a Detective playing it low? Maybe not, but's it's tricky to figure out why mafia do things. If you've got a great explanation that helps frame someone's role, that's good, but just wondering is usually a mindless spiral. The mafia could have literally rolled the dice for all we know.

In this place, mafia do roll the dice for their kills in the beginning, but then people roll dice for their D1 vote and N1 actions.

I support this.

And why don't you vote for Nightbringer then?

Note to self: Do not insult Khaan.

Or vote for him. Or suggest his votes are unfounded. Or say that his former username was better. Or… well, just to play safe, play on another server and use TOR to connect.

You don't look like a pigeon.

I think Scarlett is still confused about how vote changing works.

Self demonstration: removing my vote from Cuthalious

Unvote

What?

My vote remained on you because you still didn't vote. I believe it's extremely unhelpful to town to hold votes until the very end. I actually care less about what people say to explain their thought process, because this is the game of deception and backstabbing. Their actions (votes and night actions) are more important to me.

I also don't hesitate to OMGUS anyone who I disagree with, or to make a point. I was making a point to edse that his argument equally applied back to him.

Actually, OMGUS is voting for someone who has voted you…

[Al Sipsclar]

Actually, OMGUS is voting for someone who has voted you…

Right. I voted for edse, who voted me, as you eloquently noted in #84.

[Cass_]

1: Kill the town, win.
2: Kill the mafia, win.

Whaat? I post in English using the Latin alphabet. I could be using other languages and/or alphabets at you. But, still, at least you follow reason and vote for Cass_.

These two actually made me lol.

For now, I take it your silence indicates that your gentlemanly response to my bold question below

@El Barto - Are you playing seriously yet? Literally all of your responses (#80

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OMGUS! :P

and #81, #84) have been tongue-in-cheek and not much else. Is that a thing for you/here on D1?

is something along the lines of PAFO?

[El Barto]

Tell me more.

You say that it's not a good vote. I consider all votes on me to be bad votes, by definition. So, we agree that it's not a good vote.

For now, I take it your silence indicates that your gentlemanly response to my bold question below

@El Barto - Are you playing seriously yet? Literally all of your responses (#80

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OMGUS! :P

and #81, #84) have been tongue-in-cheek and not much else. Is that a thing for you/here on D1?

is something along the lines of PAFO?

I am unaware of what PAFO stands for, my fair lady.

[Beskar]

I am unaware of what PAFO stands for, my fair lady.

Me neither... but I bet they don't know Rule #1!