Rise of The Snake Cult [Concluded]

[Beskar]

I didn't think Beskar was playing the 'in the dark townie thing' initially - #52 'Never heard of anti-claim mechanics other than getting night killed or lynched for claiming before' read more knowing than spacey to me, but the fact his second question was 'what's a closed setup?' (#95) pushes it a bit.

@Beskar - how many games have you played?

I played regularly on the Org around.. 3 years ago? First time after a long break.

First question is I have never had a game where someone claimed something in-game have in resulting on GM effects on their roles, which is an interesting idea but I have never experienced that in a game before so I am unfamiliar with such a set-up being used.

Second one you pointed out, I was unfamiliar with the term "closed set-up" so I was asking for clarity if it meant "not communicating outside of thread" or simply "unknown quantity of roles" which it was clarified as. So it seems if I used my initial assumption, I would have been answering incorrectly. The latter I usually put that down as 'typical Org mafia game' as we rarely played vanilla, especially in my games.

Eitherway, I am not clueless or intending to be as such.

[Cass_]

Sorry, meant to get back earlier but hectic day.

Meta's kind of a trap like that. It's too useful until you don't have it. You must have someone to settle on. Anyone. The vaguest idea? Someone you'd be at peace dying here if everyone else looked decent.

Yes. At this point I was thinking gun to head [v]Al Sipsclar[/v] for the reasons previously mentioned, the way he answered my questions/didn't answer questions about his read on Winston later on.

I understand El Barto will be difficult to read, but he amuses me and I'm finding if you look carefully he is kind of making some points - and they're more observations than really driving lynches towards low hanging fruite so I'm happy to keep him around for now. I'm guessing activity/voting patterns in later days will be key to figuring him out.

Beskar answered my questions fully here

I played regularly on the Org around.. 3 years ago? First time after a long break.

First question is I have never had a game where someone claimed something in-game have in resulting on GM effects on their roles, which is an interesting idea but I have never experienced that in a game before so I am unfamiliar with such a set-up being used.

Second one you pointed out, I was unfamiliar with the term "closed set-up" so I was asking for clarity if it meant "not communicating outside of thread" or simply "unknown quantity of roles" which it was clarified as. So it seems if I used my initial assumption, I would have been answering incorrectly. The latter I usually put that down as 'typical Org mafia game' as we rarely played vanilla, especially in my games.

Eitherway, I am not clueless or intending to be as such.

The response is essentially null but at least he outright said he's not clueless or intending to be - ergo, he's not hiding behind that and even if he was he can't now because he'll be caught out. I'm not sure yet whether he's more likely scummy or low hanging fruit. My next step is to look at vote trains (I know, I'm cutting it close).

You say that it's not a good vote. I consider all votes on me to be bad votes, by definition. So, we agree that it's not a good vote.

I am unaware of what PAFO stands for, my fair lady.

Yes, it's Play and Find Out. I like a challenge so ok for now!

It's day one. No one should look scummy yet. 5 bucks says that a hapless townie is going to be lynched today, and mafia don't even have to participate in the lynch. They would pull all the tricks to avoid the responsibility. They may happily vote off the wagon or for each other. But sometimes they have to move their vote to avoid being lynched on D1. So, voting early and seeing who voted who and when is important. It is your duty as a townie.

My read on Winston is totally metagamish and not a very definitive one. I might be totally wrong. El Barto is always very entertaining, but hard to tell for me if he's scummy. The only tell I have for him is that the more active he is, the more chances are he's town.

I don't disagree with the top stuff. But I do find it strange that with all the talk of the importance of voting, your vote remains on me. Why? You put it there after I highlighted your voting anyone who FoS'd you and you haven't taken it off even though I think I've done a good job of explaining my thought process and my concerns. The vote on Raith could have been Towny pressure to reaction fish, but the vote on Edse and I just feel too opportunistic/OMGUS.

[Scarlett Aria]

I agree with Cass on El making points. I don't think he should be lynched as he will probably have a lot to say later on. He reminds me of my unreadableness on my home site.

[Cass_]

0 Khaan:
0 Nightbringer:
1 John: Winston Hughes
1 Scarlett: Autolycus
1 Winston: Johnhughthom
1 Cass: El Barto
1 Severing Viper: Zain
1 Cass: Al Sipsclar
2 Raith: Viper, Nightbringer
2 GeneralHankerchief: Beskar, Raith Kemmler*
2 Cuthillius: GoldenKnight, Jarema
2 El Barto: Cuthillius, seireikhaan*

3 Al Sipsclar: edse, Scarlett*, Cass*
3 Beskar: Landlubber, Csargo, GeneralHankerchief*


This is the vote count as I have it at the moment.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've had no sleep in over 24 hours and I don't normally do this sort of stuff, please don't trample me if it's wrong!

. The * are people who moved since the last vote count. Unless something changes, I think Besker is getting lynched here (?is this right?).

[Cass_]

I agree with Cass on El making points. I don't think he should be lynched as he will probably have a lot to say later on. He reminds me of my unreadableness on my home site.

Heh. He reminds me a little bit of a cross between Yates and Moonius tbh. Plus maybe some NotBob, but I don't think you know him.

Is anyone else around?

[Scarlett Aria]

Heh. He reminds me a little bit of a cross between Yates and Moonius tbh. Plus maybe some NotBob, but I don't think you know him.

Is anyone else around?

How do you see moonious?

[Scarlett Aria]

I need to sleep soon Cass.

[Cass_]

Vote: Al Sipsclar

OmgIfailbutIswearI'mnotasscummyasIlookhere. Adding it anyway in case someone wants to hammer over Beskar.

[Visor]

Day ends in an hour and five minutes (at least I hope thats what the timer is showing!)

Night will be 23 hours, and then we'll get back on schedule.

[Cass_]

Day ends in an hour and five minutes (at least I hope thats what the timer is showing!)

Night will be 23 hours, and then we'll get back on schedule.

I never thought I'd say this but... Hooray for Daylight Savings! I'm an hour earlier than I thought!

I'll be around if anyone wants to chat.

[seireikhaan]

The response is essentially null but at least he outright said he's not clueless or intending to be - ergo, he's not hiding behind that and even if he was he can't now because he'll be caught out. I'm not sure yet whether he's more likely scummy or low hanging fruit. My next step is to look at vote trains (I know, I'm cutting it close).

For what it's worth, I and I'm pretty sure at least a few others were pretty clueless on what exactly you meant by that. Been playing here since '07(though not as long as certain others), and have never seen people refer to setups as open or closed before. Just one of those little meta things that different places have. Believe me, if Beskar had tried pretending he was a noob, that would have been a *very* transparent tactic.

[Visor]

Tally:
EB (Cuth, Khaan
JHT (WH
RK (Sev, Night
Scarlet (Auto
Khaan (GH
Beskar (GH, Csargo
AL SIps (edse, Scarlet, Cass
GH (Beskar, Raith, EB
Cuth (GK, Jarema
WH (JHT
Cass ( Al Sips
Sev (Zain

[Visor]

Cuth 2
Beskar 3
El Barto 2
Severing 1
Al Sips 3
General 3
Cass 1
JHT 1
Raith 2
Scarlett 1
Winston 1


Should be the tally. Let me see who reached three first out of GH, Al Sips and Beskar.

[Visor]

Okay, Beskar reached three before GH and Al Sips, so he is lynched.

(GH reached 3 first, then Beskar, then GH went to 4, then back down to 3, so therefore Beskar was lynched over GH.

I'm going to change the tie rules as that was a goddamn pain.

From now on, there will be a tiebreaking period after the lynch where the next vote/unvote will decide.

Time for the writeup.

[Visor]

End of Day One

The court bickered and argued throughout the day on who could possibly have poisoned the Duke. Eventually Beskar was dragged in front of the Court and sentenced to death.

Beskar was lynched!

He was

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

town!

Alive:
1. Jarema
2. GeneralHankerchief
3. Golden1Knight
4. Cuthillius
5. seireikhaan
6. Zain
7. landlubber
8. edse
9. Csargo
10. Raith Kemmler
12. El Barto
13. Al Sipsclar
14. Winston Hughes
15. Nightbringer
16. Autolycus
17. Cass
18. Johnhughthom
19. Severing viper
20. Scarlett Aria

Dead:
11. Beskar, lynched D1, town.

[Visor]

23 hours for night. Send in your orders.

[Al Sipsclar]

Okay, Beskar reached three before GH and Al Sips, so he is lynched.

(GH reached 3 first, then Beskar, then GH went to 4, then back down to 3, so therefore Beskar was lynched over GH.

I'm actually a bit confused on how the lynch resolved. GH reached 3 first and stayed at 3 or above, so I'd expect him to hang. But I see where Visor is coming from, that the last time the vote tied, Beskar was at 3, but GH just transitioned from 4 to 3.

Because the situation was that indecisive, I tend to believe that scum had no hand in this. If anything, I'd worry more about landlubber's first vote on Beskar, than about GH's self-preservation vote. What saved GH was actually El Barto voting for him, then khaan unvoting him. The net result was rather unexpected, so I don't believe it was planned.

[Al Sipsclar]

I don't disagree with the top stuff. But I do find it strange that with all the talk of the importance of voting, your vote remains on me. Why? You put it there after I highlighted your voting anyone who FoS'd you and you haven't taken it off even though I think I've done a good job of explaining my thought process and my concerns. The vote on Raith could have been Towny pressure to reaction fish, but the vote on Edse and I just feel too opportunistic/OMGUS.

My vote remained on you because you still didn't vote. I believe it's extremely unhelpful to town to hold votes until the very end. I actually care less about what people say to explain their thought process, because this is the game of deception and backstabbing. Their actions (votes and night actions) are more important to me.

I also don't hesitate to OMGUS anyone who I disagree with, or to make a point. I was making a point to edse that his argument equally applied back to him.

[Raith Kemmler]

Cuthillius: Is Scarlett normally a gimmick type player?

[Cuthillius]

Cuthillius: Is Scarlett normally a gimmick type player?

Meh. She's normally a pretty solid reasonable town. Not particularly unusual in any way. Good player, though.

[El Barto]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

So you're admitting to being Mafia partners wih him, then?

With the entire day falling on the weekend, I expect to see low activity.

As if we had lives to begin with!

Kill speculation doesn't usually bear fruit in my experience. Especially in a closed set up. Maybe he looked like a Detective playing it low? Maybe not, but's it's tricky to figure out why mafia do things. If you've got a great explanation that helps frame someone's role, that's good, but just wondering is usually a mindless spiral. The mafia could have literally rolled the dice for all we know.

In this place, mafia do roll the dice for their kills in the beginning, but then people roll dice for their D1 vote and N1 actions.

I support this.

And why don't you vote for Nightbringer then?

Note to self: Do not insult Khaan.

Or vote for him. Or suggest his votes are unfounded. Or say that his former username was better. Or… well, just to play safe, play on another server and use TOR to connect.

You don't look like a pigeon.

I think Scarlett is still confused about how vote changing works.

Self demonstration: removing my vote from Cuthalious

Unvote

What?

My vote remained on you because you still didn't vote. I believe it's extremely unhelpful to town to hold votes until the very end. I actually care less about what people say to explain their thought process, because this is the game of deception and backstabbing. Their actions (votes and night actions) are more important to me.

I also don't hesitate to OMGUS anyone who I disagree with, or to make a point. I was making a point to edse that his argument equally applied back to him.

Actually, OMGUS is voting for someone who has voted you…

[Al Sipsclar]

Actually, OMGUS is voting for someone who has voted you…

Right. I voted for edse, who voted me, as you eloquently noted in #84.

[Al Sipsclar]

My leans at the moment:

Town:
Winston Hughes - less sure today, hope to see more activity during the week
Raith Kemmler - good content
Scarlett Aria - seems clueless enough to be town

Slight town:
Cuthillius - attempts at scumhunting
El Barto - good level of activity
landlubber - I like his activity level D1, though the first vote on Beskar worries me
edse - the way he reacted yesterday gives me some hope

Neutral/Unknown:
Severing viper - duplicate posts. Understandable since he's new to the forum, though might also show nervousness.
GeneralHankerchief - why Beskar had to die for you to live?
Autolycus - filthy lurker
Johnhughthom - hides behind Winston
seireikhaan - hides behind GH
Zain - seems overexcited, but understandable after a long hiatus
Cass_ - actually upgraded from slight scum. I understand that maybe it's the personal style, but I believe delaying the vote is anti-town.

Slight scum:
Jarema
Golden1Knight
Nightbringer
- low activity, don't like the votes.

Vote: Nightbringer I can also support lynching Jarema or Golden1Knight.

[Jarema]

I do not know what you do not like in my votes, Al

[Al Sipsclar]

Updating my leans:

Town:
Winston Hughes - would be a ballsey gambit to push for khaan's lynch to save JHT
Raith Kemmler - good content
edse - though voting Scarlett was bad
Cass_ - Cemented khaan's lynch. I will never get over her delaying her vote until late in the day. Vote early, vote often!

Slight town:
Cuthillius - continuing attempts at scumhunting
El Barto - good level of activity
Johnhughthom - lynched khaan, though was saving himself in the process, might be bussing.

Neutral/Unknown:
Jarema - townie meta according to few folks
landlubber - his voting choices worry me
Autolycus - still filthy lurker, questionable voting choices
Zain - eager and overexcited, but understandable after a long hiatus. Was not visiting Scarlett last night.
Golden1Knight - some activity, keep it up

Slight scum:
GeneralHankerchief - D2: was ready to lynch Jarema or JHT. D1: why Beskar had to die for you to live?
Severing viper - MIA? duplicate posts D1. Understandable since he's new to the forum, though might also show nervousness.
Nightbringer - some attempt at analysis, but no vote?

I Vote: GeneralHankerchief for now.