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  1. #1
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Want some lemon with it, feel free to pick them you even get payed to do it
    I envy you. You get paid to drink vodka while other people pay to do that.

    As forfinding your quote, my memory (unburdened by vodka) serves me quite OK. It was in the same discussion about face-covering, although in a different thread.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 12-16-2015 at 13:49.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I envy you. You get paid to drink vodka while other people pay to do that.

    As forfinding your quote, my memory (unburdened by vodka) serves me quite OK. It was in the same discussion about face-covering, although in a different thread.
    You misunderstand me, I meant you are free to find lemons, there is no such thing as too much lemons and you could be usefull
    Last edited by Fragony; 12-16-2015 at 15:41.

  3. #3
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    Was a bit sympathetic with the OP's argument until he compared mistreatment of women in the UK to what goes on in Saudi Arabia.

    A nominal vote is useless when they are still denied even the most basic freedoms. Let them walk out the house or show their face in public before you start worrying about token political rights.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    A nominal vote is useless when they are still denied even the most basic freedoms. Let them walk out the house or show their face in public before you start worrying about token political rights.
    Token political rights will enable those basic freedoms.

  5. #5
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    Quote Originally Posted by HitWithThe5 View Post
    Token political rights will enable those basic freedoms.
    In the British experience, institutional freedoms pre-dated political rights. By quite a long way. Actually, in the British experience, institutional freedoms has been a commonly accepted reality for goodness knows how many centuries. The British assumption of freedom unless specifically otherwise prescribed, and even then bitterly fought over, has been the model for liberal democratic countries all over the world, not least the US. What's it like in the country you're from?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    That's the way it works in most countries. Saudi Arabia is different because institutional freedoms and political rights are dictated by the clergy and the crown. This is a positive step in an Islamist society, look at Iran. Clergy has a growing post-Islamist threat of various stripes, this is a large part of it.

    My country is too young to be in that conversation, but far better than Saudi Arabia in every way.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 12-17-2015 at 00:37.

  7. #7
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things Are Changing

    Quote Originally Posted by HitWithThe5 View Post
    That's the way it works in most countries. Saudi Arabia is different because institutional freedoms and political rights are dictated by the clergy and the crown. This is a positive step in an Islamist society, look at Iran. Clergy has a growing post-Islamist threat of various stripes, this is a large part of it.

    My country is too young to be in that conversation, but far better than Saudi Arabia in every way.
    Saudi Arabia is the same as Iran was - Iran fell apart after the Shah fell and it's only edged towards real democracy in the last decade, despite having a strong democratic tradition prior to the Shah's direct rule and a well educated populace.

    You also have to ask why the Saudi Princes are doing this.

    I see a couple of possible explanations:

    A: Someone's Courtesan complained about rubbish collection in her ward.

    B: They're trying to distract the US from what a terrible place it is by making token gestures towards reform.

    At the other end of the scale you have Bahrain where the ruler is trying to move towards democracy and inclusion of women in the government but keeps running up against his ignorant male subjects who'd rather be ruled by Islamists.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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