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Thread: Remain or leave:UK referendum

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Remain or leave:UK referendum

    It looks like we (the UK) will given a chance to vote on whether to stay in or leave the EU. I wasn't sure how I could put my own personal feelings that I haven't voiced before. Then I found this....

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There's this guy next door who I just can't make out. A few years ago, he and his family joined a local Co-operative group with a bunch of other families in our village, apparently with the intent of enabling them to buy and sell with those families. They pay a ton of cash into it, but my neighbour claims that it's worth it and they get more back in return than they put in.

    That seems questionable to me, given the amount he pays into the Co-op (it’s a lot), but regardless of that there's a couple of other things connected with being a member of the group that I think I should point out, just so you know where I’m coming from.

    Firstly, being a member of the Co-op doesn't just mean that he gets to buy and sell with the other families, as he told his family when they first joined. That would be fine, but it’s much more complex than that. The group is run by a Central Committee, which is made up of representatives from all the other member families, and together they set rules for all the households (although I understand that the smaller households have very little clout in the Central Committee and most decisions are made by four or five of the richer families).

    You might ask what kind of rules. Well there’s a lot, but just to give you an example of one of the oddest – at least to my way of thinking – the Central Committee gets a say in who my neighbour can or cannot let into his house, and what rights they have once they're in. No kidding!

    So much for the first oddity, here's the second. As I say, my family is not a member of the Co-op, and so you might think that would mean we don’t get to buy and sell with any of the families that are in the group. Actually no. We have private arrangements with those who are on the Central Committee and with a number of other families who are also not in the group. Only the other day, my wife made a big batch of jam and we sold it to three families that are on the Committee and a couple that aren’t.

    What I'm saying is that we're basically free to trade with whichever families we want to in our village, yet unlike my neighbour, we set all our own rules, we get to decide who does and doesn't come into our house, and we have our own rules of the household which are – frankly speaking – nothing to do with any other family. Oh, and, of course, we don't have to pay anyone for the privilege of deciding these things for us!

    It seems obvious to me who has the better deal, yet my neighbour not only thinks I'm barmy, he periodically insults me for our stance. Says we're isolated. He's even come up with an imaginative insult to describe us. Calls us "Little Householders" he does. I just laugh at him. I’m not sure why being able to run our own household the way we want makes us a “little household”, but there you go. Make of it what you will.

    Now that's all bizarre, I think you will agree, but it gets even stranger. I know for a fact that some of my neighbour's family think all this is a bit mad as well. I sometimes hear them complaining about being told what they can and can’t do by the Central Committee, especially as some of the diktats they have to follow are simply crazy and they come in a book of rules and regulations that makes the Encyclopaedia Britannica look like a pamphlet. I've even heard some of them float the idea of pulling out. How does my neighbour deal with this? Simple, he becomes all things to all men. Occasionally, I hear him scaring them with stuff about being left isolated, friendless and like those "Little Householders" next door (that's us you know). Yet because he can't entirely ignore their concerns – even though he clearly wishes he could – I sometimes hear him doing the exact opposite: railing against the Co-op, and sounding like he’s going to get really tough with the Central Committee to fight for the family’s rights.

    It's transparent nonsense, of course. He can’t fight for their rights of course, since in agreeing to be a member of the Central Committee he has already agreed to let other families decide what those rights are. If he were really interested in fighting for their rights, there’s only one way of doing it, and that’s by pulling out and becoming a sovereign household once more. This’ll never happen though. The man's a dyed-in-the-wool member of the Co-op and of the Central Committee and will do anything he can to remain in.

    What he has done, however, is to tell his family that he’ll let them have a vote on whether to stay in or pull out of the Co-op. But here’s the catch: he has told them that they will get to vote only after he has first renegotiated some of the terms of their membership. I marvel at his cheek. For me, as an outsider, it’s as transparent as clear glass. He hopes that if he sounds tough enough, and if he manages to wring a few sops out of the Central Committee, he’ll be able to sell it to his family that he has really looked after their rights and protected their interests.

    It’s actually been quite amusing – as an interested bystander that is – to see how he has been working out this little scheme. There he is, shuffling from one meeting to another, visiting other families on the Central Committee too, sounding tough, standing steadfast with a bunch of demands that they need to accept before he will allow his family to vote. Once they agree to his demands, he obviously plans to go back to his family, claim a famous victory, and then snigger to himself as they vote to remain in membership.

    It's all an absolute farce of course. A lot of people are saying he's not going to get the concessions he's after, but call me a cynic when I say that I think he’s probably already worked out the details with the big families on the Central Committee already, but they all just have to have this ding dong in public to make it look to his family like he’s really fighting their corner. Even now I can hear him at the dinner table, calling his family together and, with that seriously pious face he puts on in such situations, saying, "Look what I negotiated. Of course we had to make some compromises – that's the nature of being in the Co-op – but I drove a hard bargain and got most of what I wanted. That's leadership for you". Then he’ll frighten them about the dangers of becoming a “Little Household” and about the dangers of all the other families snubbing them, and 101 other dangers of becoming a fully functioning, sovereign household. And then he’ll call a vote at a time he is sure he can win.

    To an outsider like me, this is all really rather funny. The very fact that he has to get agreement from other families on the Central Committee on what rules he must adopt in his own household shows that he doesn’t even run a proper household in the first place. It’s certainly doesn’t qualify as an independent household under any reasonable definition of the words “independent household”, does it? That’s why the charge of being a “Little Householder” just cracks me up. I'd say that it perfectly describes a family that has wilfully agreed to abdicate its right to make major decisions about how it lives and functions to a committee made up of other families! But if he wants to continue calling us “Little Householders” for the perfectly natural desire to run our own house, why would that bother me? Sounds better than being a “Vassal Household”, does it not?

    The only question that puzzles me is why he does it. Why cede control of your household to a group of other families, so that you have to go crawling to them whenever you don’t like some of the rules they’ve imposed on you? Why not just pull out and run the household yourself, trading with whomever wants your goods, and making up your own rules without having them imposed by other families? To my mind there is only one explanation that fits this bizarre behaviour: The Co-op allows him to get all sorts of rules passed in his family that he could never impose if it were just him doing it independently. But, you might ask, doesn’t this suggest that he doesn’t like his family very much? Yes, I rather think it does.


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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Happy New Year old friend! Hope that 2016 is a banner one for you.

    I must confess that I'm not up to speed with the issues around the rules of the EU and membership agreements to offer an opinion of any meaningful value. However, what I will say is that while your article rings true to my libertarian heart, the UK should be prepared for some credit tightening should you vote against membership. The big guys tend to get steamed when you wrinkle their pretty plans.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    I was already eye-rolling after the first paragraph of the imaginary story and could smell where it was coming from a mile away. Could always change the story to reflect reality more...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I have to be first to admit, me and the folks in my village never really got on so great, especially with the Jones family near the middle, we have two village bustups with them over the last few years but after a while, we started to see eye-to-eye, especially when our village became under threat by nearby towns which are squeezing us out of trade and livelihoods, we started to realise that we couldn't really compete on our own, and we found that our often disagreements could have been easily resolved when we worked together, and when we almost lost our little village to these towns, we started to share some unity and instead of being vassals of these towns, we, as a village, could get together and build ourselves a town and stand on our own feet.

    Progress was slow, as we had to get our neighbours to sign up. Mr. Jones and Louise were two of the first, getting their friends to start, though Robert with his big farmyard came a little later because they were worried he would dominant the town with his influence. But little by little, we got 28 of our neighbours in the village to start work on making us into a town.

    First thing we realised, is that we needed a common marketplace. At the moment, many of the farms in the village simply trade from the back of their sheds, and each using different weights, with different rates, with vastly different standards and criteria to the products. This evidently became a problem when we were trading banana's on the shop floor, then the state of them sat there...I swear to you, Mr Smiths banana's looked and tasted more like jenkins! We thought the best way was instead of having 28 different rules and standards, all with niggling interferences and confusions, we will work from the same system. Now, the banana's are indeed bananas, very tasty too.

    We noticed other issues too, like the village pond was being overfished and our stocks are facing extinction! We decided to come together to come to some arrangement about quotas, so instead of losing all the fish, we all cut back so it can be done at managable levels.

    We also came together to do a few funds because of the flooding due to climate change ruining our homes in the downpour, especially the ones who live near the channel. This way, when someone in the town needs help, we have rainy day fund to tackle these issues together.

    We also had a big issue with crime and some disruptive neighbours. So we got together and decided on a set of laws which each neighbour had to abide to, giving everyone rights, so they are protected, even if the head of the family is in the wrong. These arbitration system even extended to a nearby town and villages, who decided they wanted to be involved in it as well.

    Now, you would think everything is all rosey with the progress we are making, and even though the village is starting to be a town, with everyone being civil, becoming more self-sufficient and becoming recognised as a very important town, there are those that object.

    Most of this is due to the town being used as a scape-goat, with all the ills in the world being attributed to one policy or another, and Robert is one of those bad for doing this. Robert has one of the big farms in the town, and even though he benefits greatly from us, he likes to grumbles about everything petty even when it doesn't make sense, even bemoaning that he could sell to a neighbouring town and be their vassal that he could get more money. He is a spoilt brat with no vision sometimes, even though Ms Robert said she would divorce him if he left the town, because the town ensures she isn't enslaved to the kitchen by his demanding tendencies...


    etc
    Last edited by Beskar; 01-05-2016 at 19:14.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    The big guys tend to get steamed when you wrinkle their pretty plans.
    Curse that Abraham Lincoln!
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    I was more thinking of those other great American agents of foreign policy: Warren Buffet, Jamie Dimon and George Soros.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    We also came together to do a few funds because of the flooding due to climate change EU diktats ruining our homes in the downpour, especially the ones who live near the channel. This way, when someone in the town needs help, we have rainy day fund to tackle these issues together.
    Fixed it for you.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    Nope. The UK for example, is eligible for funding EU to increase flood defences, a fund which Germany has previously used before too. Instead, the conservative government cut funding, put up shoddy defences, and allowed the North to be flooded for giggles.
    Last edited by Beskar; 01-05-2016 at 21:31.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Nope. The UK for example, is eligible for funding EU to increase flood defences, a fund which Germany has previously used before too. Instead, the conservative government cut funding, put up shoddy defences, and allowed the North to be flooded for giggles.
    Yhe defences were hardly shoddy, the downpour was unprecedented and nothing short of Dutch engineering would have stopped it.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    We should apply to join NAFTA. All the trade and little of the interference.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Also, the committee decided to commemorate the creation of the co-operative group in the 9th of May, in a thinly veiled attempt to cover up the fact that in the same day, the Communists crushed nazism once and for all.

    Quite a coincidence, I would have bought it, if it wasn't for the Two Extremes theory and Communism=Fascism.

    Out I say, but could the OP add a public poll, please?

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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Where was the bald eagle named Small Government?
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    We should apply to join NAFTA. All the trade and little of the interference.

    Until Trump decides to build a wall around UK for which you have to pay.

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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Yhe defences were hardly shoddy, the downpour was unprecedented and nothing short of Dutch engineering would have stopped it.

    Play fair ot don't play at all.
    They are lacklustre at best and it has always been a gripe where everyone have always said as such, but ended up hand-waved away, only to be proven right. It isn't unprecedented as it happened a few years ago as well, but the same exact issue happened again.

    Though, I am sure the Dutch like the praise given to them.
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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Until Trump decides to build a wall around UK for which you have to pay.
    Actually they should be more worried about being held to every line of the agreement while the Yank's just do whatever they want. Treaty be damned.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Hope you guys vote a solid no, we also voted no against a eurpean conitution but they just call it something else and do it anyway.

    Juncker when as usual drunk: we decide something, if there is no (actual) resistance we push it through, nobody knows what we are doing anyway (loose translation)
    Last edited by Fragony; 01-07-2016 at 09:04.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Until Trump decides to build a wall around UK for which you have to pay.
    God helped matters by putting the English Channel there already.

    And given that this is a trade block, with no intention for political union it is the better option - like the EEC all those years ago.

    When NAFTA signs the agreement with the EU we'd keep our market access anyway.

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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    When NAFTA signs the agreement with the EU we'd keep our market access anyway.
    OK, may that all trade agreements in the world be nullified until they can be consolidated under the jurisdiction of the United Nations.

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    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    I have no love of the corrupt, secretive and wasteful EU - but I can't see that an exit now would be of any benefit. The experience of Denmark is that they have to abide by all the EU rules, but have no influence over them. Voting for an exit is just little englander belligerence and cutting off our nose to spite our faces.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Leave the EU, restore the Empire. Restore the Monarchy. Bring back longbows in service.
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    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    And billmen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    I have no love of the corrupt, secretive and wasteful EU - but I can't see that an exit now would be of any benefit. The experience of Denmark is that they have to abide by all the EU rules, but have no influence over them. Voting for an exit is just little englander belligerence and cutting off our nose to spite our faces.
    Probably not the best comparison for a pro eu argument considering denmark seems to be one of the only countries in europe not floundering.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Your propensity to confuse a number of issues and then make a poor judgement based on the hash you present is always entertaining.

    We are not comparing in or out countries and their economies (in fact Denmark is having much the same issues as it's neighbours).

    I wouldn't describe myself as pro EU. Just not aligned with the ukip fruitloops.
    Last edited by Idaho; 01-15-2016 at 16:12.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Why are ukip fruitloops when eurocrats don't even understand the difference between a continent; europe, and an ultra-undemocratic institution; EU. The end of the EU is not the end of Europe, just less gin-tonics for Juncker.
    Last edited by Fragony; 01-15-2016 at 16:53.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Why are ukip fruitloops when eurocrats don't even understand the difference between a continent; europe, and an ultra-undemocratic institution; EU. The end of the EU is not the end of Europe, just less gin-tonics for Juncker.
    Because they are a motley band of old farts, racists, would be mob demogogues, Tories that are too nuts for even the tory party, and plain old buffoons who want twice as much power as they have brain cells. I haven't seen a single ukipper who I would trust to tie my shoe laces.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Do you know what a 'little Englander' is Idaho?

    You do seem a bit confused, (or brainwashed).

    1. (Historical Terms) (esp in the 19th century) a person opposed to the extension of the British Empire
    I hope that helps clear up the issue for you mate.

    I haven't seen a single ukipper who I would trust to tie my shoe laces.
    I'd learned to tie up my own by the time I was six years old. :)
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 01-15-2016 at 18:19.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  26. #26
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Because they are a motley band of old farts, racists, would be mob demogogues, Tories that are too nuts for even the tory party, and plain old buffoons who want twice as much power as they have brain cells. I haven't seen a single ukipper who I would trust to tie my shoe laces.
    If ukip gets more swords to wield that can still be your opinion on them withour you having a problem. Have you looked up what eurocrats actually say? Especially Juncker, drunks tend to speak what's on their mind. Ukip are true liberals imo, dying kind.

  27. #27
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Your propensity to confuse a number of issues and then make a poor judgement based on the hash you present is always entertaining.
    It's surprising you have enough room there for montmorency's words, considering what else of his you've already taken to mouth... I mean heart.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 01-15-2016 at 19:14.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  28. #28
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Voting for an exit is just little englander belligerence and cutting off our nose to spite our faces.
    Or, perhaps, a simple necessity to avoid be embroiled in a political and economic union that is an absolute precondition to the eurozones survival.

    This being but [[[one]]] small example:

    http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content...safeguards.pdf

    De jure incentives to take common position: This incentive is reinforced by the way the Commission’s ECB/EBA Regulations are currently drafted. For example:

    • The ECB Regulation envisions the ECB acting as a coordinator of eurozone national supervisors, with the view for them to take a common position. The ECB has already dropped hints that it intends to actively discourage dissenting opinions amongst eurozone national supervisors.

    • Through a eurozone caucus, some member states will indirectly boost their influence as their voting weight amongst eurozone countries is proportionally much greater than in the EU-27 (EU-28 with Croatia). This is particularly true of the larger eurozone member states.

    • The safeguards proposed by the European Commission (see Section 5 below) leave the eurozone with the upper hand. Given that the 17 eurozone countries already constitute a simple majority, these countries would only need to seek the support of three ‘outs’ – whereas non-euro countries would need at least four countries.

    De facto incentives to take a common euro position: To avoid banks free-riding on taxpayers in creditor countries, the ECB, Germany and others could well insist on putting into place perfectly harmonised eurozone regulations before moving to financial backstops. This could include single-target capital requirements, rules on leverage or bonuses – and could even spill over to market access issues. In turn, this would heavily shape decisions at the EBA, as the eurozone is unlikely to accept an uneven playing field within EU financial services as a whole.De facto incentives to take a common euro position: To avoid banks free-riding on taxpayers in creditor countries, the ECB, Germany and others could well insist on putting into place perfectly harmonised eurozone regulations before moving to financial backstops. This could include single-target capital requirements, rules on leverage or bonuses – and could even spill over to market access issues. In turn, this would heavily shape decisions at the EBA, as the eurozone is unlikely to accept an uneven playing field within EU financial services as a whole.

    Taken together, the EBA structure will therefore significantly shift the balance of power in favour of the eurozone, at the expense of the UK and other ‘outs’.
    In short, we face a serious (future) problem whereby a integrated economic union of eurozone states begin to caucus decisions against the policy consensus of the EBU, the consequence of which would be that Britain ceased to be a sovereign nation. Once we cease to be a sovereign nation we instead become a sanjak, such as Greece was under the ottomans and is again today under the troika.

    This would have reduced the EU’s value in British eyes, bringing a serious disconnect between the perception of the price we pay (in constitutional terms) vs the value we derive (in economic terms).

    If we dodge this bullet then great, content (not happy, mind), to stay In. Otherwise, I will be happy (not merely content), to leave.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  29. #29
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Because they are a motley band of old farts, racists, would be mob demogogues, Tories that are too nuts for even the tory party, and plain old buffoons who want twice as much power as they have brain cells. I haven't seen a single ukipper who I would trust to tie my shoe laces.
    Why are UKIP racist, don't see how. Actual racists vote BNP, and I think you can't accuse most of them of racism either, not sure about the voters though. A lot of people are just fed up with the EU, c'est ca. A vote for a pro-EU party is volunteering for serfdom.
    Last edited by Fragony; 01-26-2016 at 10:42.

  30. #30
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Remain or leave:UK referendum

    Just heard David Lammy MP on the daily politics tell Steven Wolf from UKIP that a million Indian soldiers died in WWII to save the EU. He's either a friggin lier or as thick as pig shit. My monies on the latter......



    There you go....

    Last edited by InsaneApache; 01-26-2016 at 16:46.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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