The faction you could never handle

[Martok]

In the main campaign, it's the Turks that I've always particularly struggled with. (Note: I start my games in the Early period.) Starting as a landlocked faction means you're pretty much forced to go to war early on, and both the Byz nor the Eggies are fairly tough customers (albeit for slightly different reasons). In addition, I've admittedly never been the most adept at handling mounted missile cavalry in battle, which makes up a good percentage of the Turks' unit roster -- more so than any other faction in the game.

In the VI campaign, the Scots and Picts have both always been difficult for me. Poor starting lands, neither faction has a great unit roster (although Clansmen make for nice, cheap flankers early on), and both factions have to worry about the other one -- it's only a matter of time before they end up having to duke it out for supremacy of northern Britain.

Playing Aragon I usually tried to capture Navarra at once, and then Valencia with El Cid. It is true, though, that I started in High.

Yep, grabbing Navarre early and bribing Cid (when possible) and using him to take Valencia is key when playing as Aragon. If you can accomplish this, however, you'll have a decent base from which to to build on for further expansion.

In VI, for me, it was the Mercians. The Saxons have better units at the beginning and they'd snuff me out in the first few turns.

Really?? Astonishing. The Mercians have long been my favorite faction in the VI campaign (with the Irish being a strong second). Their starting lands are rich enough to allow me to maintain a decent-sized army early on (which helps in discouraging aggressive neighbors), whilst still developing my provinces. As for the Saxons, they're generally too busy fending off Viking raids to bother me much.

[LordK9]

I've been able to win with the Mercians, quite easily once (if) pass the beginning of the game, but for some reason, by turn three, the Saxons are always on me, diplomacy or not.

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

I'm currently at around 1330 in my vanilla VI, Polish, Hard, Early, Glorious Achievements campaign, and it's been a SLOG, I can tell you. I've only recently gotten 'round to building my first citadel. Money has been tighter than a falsetto's y-fronts! Every florin has had to be coaxed into my treasury, husbanded attentively, and I practically wept as I had to sign the 4K florin cheque to upgrade Krakow castle to a fortress. (Required for the Jagiellonian Cathedral GA.)

My empire consists of Scandinavia, modern Poland and eastern Germany, the Baltic states, western-most Russia, and a corridor of Balkan provinces down to the Black Sea. I do have a 'hinterland' of lightly garrisoned provinces which produce a surplus to support the large armies in my border provinces, and allow for some slow and carefully considered development outlays. I also have some sea trade from my Baltic provinces: Sweden and Lithuania are quite decent cash cows.

However, there hasn't been a decade when I haven't been at war with one or two AI factions big enough and well-resourced enough to smash me. So far I have seen off the English, the French, HRE, Byzantium, Hungary, the Danes, and the Peeps of Novgorod. The biggest threats were the English and, predictably, the Mongols.

Re the latter, I rough counted the invasion force at 20K troops. They still hold a couple of provinces in Russia and are trading blows with the Egyptians. I proudly claim to be the Sword and Shield of Christendom: I did not lose a single province for even a single year to them heathen baskets! That said, my companies of Armoured Spearmen, Crossbowmen and Mounted Sergeants suffered horrific casualties in a couple of seriously near run thing battles in Volhynia.

My current strategic quandary is this: if I can just hold onto what I've got I'll *probably* finish the campaign with more GA points than any other faction. BUT, and it's a big but, either the Almohads or the Egyptians could conceivably overtake me. Practically all my sea trade is with Almo ports along the Atlantic and north western coast of Europe, and the Almos own all of Iberia, the three western provinces on the African coast, all of modern France and the Low Countries. They are at war with what's left of the Spanish in England, and they've recently invaded Italy and discomforted the Pope.

Bottom line: the Almos are currently too big for me to go to war with, and my finances would be wrecked if I lost the trade income. As it is I’m making a profit of, say, 600 florins a year. I.e., barely in the black.

As for the Eggies, they own all of the rest of North Africa, the Levant, practically all of Turkey including Constantinople, and quite a few of the Russian Steppe and Caucasus provinces. They have two four-stack armies on my southern border and much better generals than me. I could probably take out one or other of these armies, but I have no confidence I can defeat them both.

So my dilemma is: do I sit tight, behave passively, hold to my existing borders, and hope that neither the Almos nor the Eggies rack up so many conquest points that they overtake me? (And maybe they'll suffer the imperial overstretch syndrome and implode, which seems unlikely.) Or do I try to roll one of them - probably the Egyptians - back to a more easily defended frontier (from my point of view), and then focus all my energies on the other. I dunno the answer to that question. The Council of State is vacillating. I have, however, sent a couple of barque flotillas on a decade-long cruise to the Black Sea. Once there they'll join up with flotillas to be produced in Moldavia and I hope to be able to interdict Egyptian troop movements across the Black Sea. That should give me a fighting chance of out-producing them in the Balkan theatre if we do come to blows.

One other thing: my kings have been crap. I mean real dregs of the gene pool rubbish. Not one of them up to snuff. We're talking wouldn't-be-allowed-out-unaccompanied retards.

I reckon I've played at least a couple of dozen MTW campaigns (various mods, as well as vanilla, always from Early). And I know that I've lost two. But in terms of 'still tough 250-odd years in' this one takes the biscuit.

MTW: such a great game!

Best regards
V

Sapere aude
Horace

[ferdi]

hmmm. interesting. could u share images?
how many ship u have, how many Eggy and Almo?
I guess they attack u probly first with ships.
Do u have any island in Mediterrenean?

[LordK9]

The bigger the empire, the more likely it goes into revolution. Many a game looked like I was stuck then, boom, chaos in the neighboring empire. Waiting might be key but going after Egypt probably more fun.

PS - currently playing Med II - a few things like movement, fighting on the walls, and how the Pope is handled I like better but they truly dumbed it down; I miss revolutions, six month turns (each season is two years! - give me a break!), returning kingdoms when a "lost" heir returns, and new AI kingdoms (Switzerland, Burgendy, etc.). The Mongols still follow you all over the map though - would have been nice to fix that.

[Gilrandir]

Before taking a choice who to attack you should take into account other factors:
- vices and virtues of the generals who lead the armies you are likely to fight (what if you are luky and some of them have "a good runner" vice);
- the quality of troops in the respective armies (what if they contain lots of peasants);
- the valor of navies you are likely to fight (what if yours have more);
- whether those two factions are allies (if yes one of them can attack you after you attack the other).
Moreover, you can try to create a decent general (at least one) in the prospective theater: take the one with the most command and make him a governor of a province which gives stars (preferably two) plus give him titles which also incur stars (preferably two).
Hope those pieces of advice will be helpful.

[Gilrandir]

I miss revolutions, six month turns (each season is two years! - give me a break!), returning kingdoms when a "lost" heir returns, and new AI kingdoms (Switzerland, Burgendy, etc.).

Classical MTW also has Switzerland - but only in Late.

[Valer]

Burgendy can appear in (very) late too.

[LordK9]

Exactly! As far as I can tell, MTW-II lacks both of them.

[Gilrandir]

Burgendy can appear in (very) late too.

Never saw it happen. What should be done to see it?

[Martok]

In order for Burgundy or Switzerland to appear, loyalty in those provinces needs to be under 120%. (And of course, it must be the right period; if memory serves, Burgundy can't show up until High, and Switzerland not until Late.)


For any dead faction to re-emerge, there are two conditions that must be met:

1.) Similar to above, there has to be a loyalty rating below 120% in a province once owned by that faction. (Those of you have played MTW long enough will know this can occasionally cause factions to reemerge in strange locations at times -- I could tell you tales of the French being reborn in Antioch, the Byzantines in Sicily, and the Almos showing up in England!)

2.) At the time of the faction's original destruction, there must be a male heir who had not yet come of age (so he'd have to be under 16 when his faction was destroyed), and could still be alive at the time of the faction's reemergence. So if 90+ years has passed without a faction reemerging, you can pretty much guarantee it's not going to, as I don't think I've ever heard of a faction leader living past his 70's (maybe early 80's?).

So my dilemma is: do I sit tight, behave passively, hold to my existing borders, and hope that neither the Almos nor the Eggies rack up so many conquest points that they overtake me? (And maybe they'll suffer the imperial overstretch syndrome and implode, which seems unlikely.) Or do I try to roll one of them - probably the Egyptians - back to a more easily defended frontier (from my point of view), and then focus all my energies on the other. I dunno the answer to that question. The Council of State is vacillating. I have, however, sent a couple of barque flotillas on a decade-long cruise to the Black Sea. Once there they'll join up with flotillas to be produced in Moldavia and I hope to be able to interdict Egyptian troop movements across the Black Sea. That should give me a fighting chance of out-producing them in the Balkan theatre if we do come to blows.

Just to muddy the advice waters a little further ( )...

One other thing I'd point out is that rather like the Byzantines, the Almos' have a strong unit roster in the Early period, but they gradually become outclassed by most of the other factions' as the game progresses. Given you're now in the campaign's Late period, it's highly likely that you can produce better-quality army units than the Almos at this point.

I don't know if that's enough of a factor for you to consider going after them instead of the Eggies, but I would've been remiss if I hadn't at least pointed it out.

One other thing: my kings have been crap. I mean real dregs of the gene pool rubbish. Not one of them up to snuff. We're talking wouldn't-be-allowed-out-unaccompanied retards.

Do you have any princes who are even halfway-decent? After all, even kings suffer accidents now and then -- or (failing that) they sometimes launch an overseas attack, but the rest of the army/fleet somehow gets separated from him and/or never leaves port...

I reckon I've played at least a couple of dozen MTW campaigns (various mods, as well as vanilla, always from Early). And I know that I've lost two. But in terms of 'still tough 250-odd years in' this one takes the biscuit.

MTW: such a great game!

Best regards
V

Sapere aude
Horace

Great to see you're enjoying it so much. There's no question the Polish are one of the more difficult factions to play; it's definitely one worth checking out for those that enjoy a long-term challenge (as you've discovered)!

[LordK9]

With the Mongols, I've found them rather easy to defeat with time. They can't replace their best units so one just has to wear them down and that is easy if you fight in woods. Their cavalry can be defeated there and their arrows do little damage. The woodsmen are a cheap way to cut down the heavy Mongol horse in the woods (with high losses but that the cheap part). Come to think of it, THAT's another thing I miss since moving to II - the woods in II seem to have little affect. Well, I already owned it so had to try it. I hear III is being worked on - maybe it'll be more (1)-like.

[Martok]

Yeah, woods are definitely your friend when it comes to fighting the Mongols (or against any other cavalry-heavy faction for that matter). I always feel for the poor Woodsmen I send to the slaughter, but there's no denying they're a cost-effective way of dealing with the GH's heavy horse.

Similarly, river battles are your friend when going up against the Mongols, especially when there's only one crossing to defend. When the Horde appears, I'll often abandon a province or two if I'm able to retreat to a river province (Kiev is well situated for this), just because it makes for that much better a line of defense.

[Trapped in Samsara]

I hear III is being worked on - maybe it'll be more (1)-like.

Really!? Can you provide a link, please?

Best regards
V

Sapere aude
Horace

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

Re combating cavalry-heavy armies 'on the cheap', I find that Militia Sergeants are reasonably effective when deployed in woods, even against MHC. They need to be under the command of a decent, say four-star general, or e.g. a 'natural leader' or some such, for the morale uplift, however. Otherwise they're just too flaky to be relied upon, even when you micromanage them tactically to safeguard their flanks, etc.

Re how to handle the Mongols strategically, yes, rivers and attrition are the MTW player's best friends. That said, even several decades after 1232 (I think that's the year the Mongols show up) in my current Polish campaign I was coming up against multi-stack Mongol armies that were able to field 6/8/10 full strength MHC companies which made withstanding the first wave's shock assault a bit of a crapshoot. Will my Armoured Spearmen hold back the ferocious onslaught before the casualty count makes one or more of my companies break? Will I be able to plug any gaps? You know what I mean: if your finances are perennially tight, so your troop class and upgrades development have been heavily restricted, you're always going to be vulnerable when facing an opponent with a strong shock and melee capability.

Best regards
V

Sapere aude
Horace

[Martok]

Really!? Can you provide a link, please?

Best regards
V

Sapere aude
Horace

Nothing's been confirmed; at this point, all we have are rumors. A month or two ago I read that supposedly the (quite enjoyable) Age of Charlemagne DLC for Attila served as a sort of test-bed/precursor for Medieval III, but that's the extent of my "knowledge".

Personally, I won't believe Med3 is the next TW title in development unless/until it's officially announced by CA/Sega (although it would be very welcome news). Until then, I'm prepared for the next game (after Warhammer) to still be anything.