PMTW 2.0 - new map thread

[zweihander]

Germany is certainly the part of the map I most interested in. As Münster, Palatinate and Pomerania will be added to the Lion of the North campaign, which provinces will you put those new faction in? And I also think it is strange to put Hessen in Swabia and put Saxony in Franconia, can we expect new province in Germany area?

[cegorach]

Germany is certainly the part of the map I most interested in. As Münster, Palatinate and Pomerania will be added to the Lion of the North campaign, which provinces will you put those new faction in? And I also think it is strange to put Hessen in Swabia and put Saxony in Franconia, can we expect new province in Germany area?

As you can see MTW Franconia has been divided - so there is one, new province in Germany.

Frankly the exact shape of german areas never concerned me that much - the territory is quite crowded compared to the rest of the map and there are many other factions which screamed for something new.

There isn't much what could be done with the number of provices, but their shape and neighbouring areas can be redefined.

If you wish you can post proposal for a new map in Germany, but bear in mind there can be only one new province added in the territory - Courland, Royal Prussia, Royal Hungary, new Dutch province, Dalmatia etc have priority.

Whatever we can use will have to be useful in ALL eras.

[zweihander]

Actually I think spliting Franconia is a good idea. curious about how would you name these two provinces splited from Franconia.

[cegorach]

One is Sachsen (Dresden), another still named Franconia.

Yeah, I suppose Germany need much work.

Think of the same number of provinces + 1 and we can change some stuff as you see fit.

Germany is relatively easy because it still will be using the same province names, same homelands for units etc.

Completely new provinces are more difficult.

[zweihander]

One is Sachsen (Dresden), another still named Franconia.

Good. But how do you deal the the Saxony province on the original MTW map, as Sachsen is the German form of Saxony.

Ok, let's start with something easy: sea/ocean areas.


So far only two changes which are however very important:

Northern Baltic and Dutch Coast.

Would spliting the Baltic Sea also protect and give more advantage to the Livonian Order?
And as the screenshot show, are you also splited the Livonia province?

[cegorach]

Good. But how do you deal the the Saxony province on the original MTW map, as Sachsen is the German form of Saxony.

It was renamed. Rather lazily into Northern Germany or something like that.

As I've said Germany was never treated properly - we lacked someone who could deal with the subject properly.

Would spliting the Baltic Sea also protect and give more advantage to the Livonian Order?
And as the screenshot show, are you also splited the Livonia province?

Yes. Livonian wars are pretty important in the period so Courland was added.

I think that this way two of three provinces of the Livonian Confederacy are well defended (recreating the importance of Riga and Danzig and local trade). Estonia has to be treated differently.

The actual, main reason to do it this way is to give Sweden direct acces to Germany.

[zweihander]

It was renamed. Rather lazily into Northern Germany or something like that.

As I've said Germany was never treated properly - we lacked someone who could deal with the subject properly.

I suggest to name it 'Lower Saxony'.

Here is a a map of Imperial Circles in 1560:

[cegorach]

I'll show changes to land areas later, but one of them you should notice already - there is no Libya and no land contact between Tunisia and Egypt.

I wanted to stop land invasions of Egypt through Africa - very difficult in actual history and impossible without a fleet.

[western]

Can I make a couple of map proposals re Venice, one very simple and the other more difficult?

In PMTW, the odd border is closed for realism (mountains) or historicity - thus Moldavia to Poland or Bulgaria. This is a good feature which somewhat makes up for the lack of terrain effects on the 2D map.

I'd like to suggest closing Venice/Austria border certainly, possibly also Venice/Croatia and Venice/Tyrolia. Two reasons - having Venice besiege Vienna would be absurd and this encourages Venice to expand by sea rather than by land; also getting into and out of Italy wasn't easy, with the key routes passing through Switzerland (Grisons and Valtelline) and Savoy. Hence also the strategic importance of Milan. It also simulates a bit how hard Venice was to overrun and occupy (which no-one managed till Napoleon).

That brings me to my harder suggestion, which is a bigger Switzerland. The Swiss warred with ducal Milan (eg 1487) and also intervened forcefully in the Italian Wars. Enlarging Switzerland to touch Milan would be historical in this sense as well as in simulating its importance as a country of passage at least until 1648. That's the middle option. The biggest/hardest option would be to give Switzerland 2 provinces by absorbing most of Tyrolia - they could be the Swiss Confederacy and the associated Three Leagues to the south east (formed 1471 - there's a good wikipedia article on the Three Leagues). Re-using Tyrolia means that it wouldn't affect the province limit.

So there are a range of options there, from simple to hard, all with the same purpose. I'm reading Geoffrey Parker's massive Global Crisis on the 17th century at the moment, and that reminded me of his classic Army of Flanders and the Spanish Road, which really brought out the importance of Milan and the Swiss passes throughout the 80 year Dutch Revolt.

[cegorach]

Ok, let's start with something easy: sea/ocean areas.


So far only two changes which are however very important:

Northern Baltic and Dutch Coast.



First links Finland and Estonia with Sweden (no landconnection).



Second protects the Dutch from sudden invasions and allows them
to build sizable fleet without blocking anybody.



Since every such change costs us Adriatic was merged with the Ionian Sea



and the Sea of Marmara was merged with the Aegean Sea.



If you have other ideas we can use them, but I doubt we need too many - maybe spliting the Black Sea to help Georgia, Circassia and the Tartars if they ever build a fleet? Honestly I am happy with the two changes.

[cegorach]

Another thing to think about is to use some of sea zones to expand the Atlantic or something, but as long as the Azores are defended by deep sea area which is not easy to access I am happy.

[Stazi]

The AI usually moves ships to the seas with the most connections and does this to the point where small seas, which connects to only 3-4 other areas, are left empty. So, I'm not sure if making the Dutch Coast is a good idea. Time will tell.

[cegorach]

In this case as long as the Dutch will build some ships I am happy. Plus it is supposed to give them some basic, easy income from trade.

There are plenty of sea areas connected to Northern Africa which are rather unnecessary. We could use some of these if there are any ideas to exploit it.

[western]

Ok, let's start with something easy: sea/ocean areas.


So far only two changes which are however very important:

Northern Baltic and Dutch Coast.



First links Finland and Estonia with Sweden (no landconnection).



Second protects the Dutch from sudden invasions and allows them
to build sizable fleet without blocking anybody.



Since every such change costs us Adriatic was merged with the Ionian Sea



and the Sea of Marmara was merged with the Aegean Sea.



If you have other ideas we can use them, but I doubt we need too many - maybe spliting the Black Sea to help Georgia, Circassia and the Tartars if they ever build a fleet? Honestly I am happy with the two changes.

How about splitting adriatic so Venice has some home waters? Two reasons - it shouldn't be too easy to take venice by sea, and I hate when Venice just casually conquers Naples - so ahistorical. You could even split the Adriatic longitudinally so Venice is funnelled towards Dalmatia and Greece rather than southern Italy.

[cegorach]

How about splitting adriatic so Venice has some home waters? Two reasons - it shouldn't be too easy to take venice by sea, and I hate when Venice just casually conquers Naples - so ahistorical. You could even split the Adriatic longitudinally so Venice is funnelled towards Dalmatia and Greece rather than southern Italy.

Good point with Naples.

I believe we have several unnecessary sea zones in the south so Venice could use one linking it with Dalmatia. Plus it is pretty accurate that all those small islands make a separate warzone.


Adding/removing sea areas is much less complicated than with land provinces, but I think we should be ok with no more than 5 new sea zones.