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Thread: Indestructable structures and their uses.

  1. #1
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Thank's to Stazi's groundbreaking discovery:

    Before the start of the campaign each province gets the unique and indestructible landmark building (multiple copies of "forest clearing" from VI). I've discovered that a building to be indestructible only need to use "forest clearing.bif" as its icon file name (3rd column in BUILD_PROD file). So, all landmarks share the same icon and description but Info Pic can be different. If you nullify the description's text and imprint the whole description directly on the info pic you can have unlimited number of different indestructible buildings. To know what is the role of anyone of these buildings, you only need to right click on it.
    we have another tool to use in the game.


    This thread is to find uses for this features and propose new building ideas which could have them - remember such structures can be present from the beginning and will never be removed so new structures can be unique to a specific province.

  2. #2
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    From the top of my head:

    Political structures such as Swiss Confederacy - massive reduction of loyalty forcing anybody who occupies Switzerland to build loyalty increasing structures and/or garrison the province with troops.

    We have resources such as pirates, balcan province, german province, colonial features etc and now we have something different to add another layer to the feature or create a new one.

    City-states - a province can have more than one and each could add more flavour with interesting descriptions and game effects. Could be very useful in Germany, especially in the north.

    Any proposals?



    General note.

    Such structures shouldn't in general generate income because a CTD is certain if there are too many in one place. Some can, but as long as some other features in the game lose this capability.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    What about representing the Commanderies in the first campaign? And also Bailiwicks which are similar. There are still a few Commanderies and Bailiwicks in late Medieval/early Renaissance era, like the Bad Mergentheim, Koblenz, Mainau or Münchenbuchsee. Maybe they can allow training some special units(or just the Dismounted Knight, which is only available to the Knights and the Livonia in 1.5)

    What about use them to represent the camps? Though I don't know how they work actually...




    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    City-states - a province can have more than one and each could add more flavour with interesting descriptions and game effects. Could be very useful in Germany, especially in the north.
    .
    It means that though with limited provinces, we can still see the Free Imperial City of Bremen, Lübeck, Hamberg, Nuremberg, Augsburg and etc. etc.

  4. #4
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    What about representing the Commanderies in the first campaign? And also Bailiwicks which are similar. There are still a few Commanderies and Bailiwicks in late Medieval/early Renaissance era, like the Bad Mergentheim, Koblenz, Mainau or Münchenbuchsee. Maybe they can allow training some special units(or just the Dismounted Knight, which is only available to the Knights and the Livonia in 1.5)
    I believe that in this period knightly orders should be seen as remnants of the past and just like bowmen and crossbowmen their presence should have limited consequences.

    What about use them to represent the camps? Though I don't know how they work actually...
    Camps are meant to be temporary and possible to destroy and rebuild very quickly, but... one or two suc structures could receive second level i.e. permanent settlement if the 'horde' decides not to move anywhere else. Would be very useful, much better for earlier ages, but I'd like to have it here anyway.





    It means that though with limited provinces, we can still see the Free Imperial City of Bremen, Lübeck, Hamberg, Nuremberg, Augsburg and etc. etc.
    Exactly. You can start thinking about a list and locations of such structures in Germany if you wish. One or two can find themselves in 1.6 both to test the idea and to have less work for the future.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post

    Exactly. You can start thinking about a list and locations of such structures in Germany if you wish. One or two can find themselves in 1.6 both to test the idea and to have less work for the future.
    Ok, let me make a quick list:

    Swabia Province:
    Free Imperial city of Augsburg
    Free Imperial city of Ulm
    Free Imperial city of Speyer

    (Lower) Saxony Province:
    Free Imperial City of Bremen
    Free Imperial city of Lübeck
    Free Imperial city of Hamburg

    Franconia Province:
    Free Imperial city of Cologne
    Free Imperial city of Frankfurt
    Free Imperial city of Worms
    (another idea is, do not put any Free Imperial city in Franconia, instead, put:
    Electorate of Mainz
    Electorate of Trier
    Electorate of Cologne
    )

    Bavaria Province:
    Free Imperial city of Nuremberg
    Free Imperial city of Regensburg

    Switzerland Province:
    Free Imperial city of Bern
    Free Imperial city of Basel
    Free Imperial city of Zürich

    (not Free Imperial any more city after became a Swiss Canton)
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-19-2016 at 14:02.

  6. #6
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    All right - each of them wil need a reasonable, but short description - well chosen quotes from Wikipedia are enough for this purpose.


    Second. Each will require a picture and an icon - both can be the same for all/a number of them but should be made in a similar style e.g. flags/coats of arms.

    Third. It would be a good idea to think about their effects in the game.

    I'd in general give them build in capability to lower happiness (the more the larger and the more influential a city state is) so that a province requires a larger garrison, but other abilities can be added (except income).

    Let's leave the third for later and for now concentrate efforts on first two points.

  7. #7
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Second. Each will require a picture and an icon
    I have to stop you here. As you can see in my quote in the first post:

    all landmarks share the same icon and description but Info Pic can be different
    All icons have to use "forest clearing.bif" (to be indestructible) so they all looks exactly the same. The difference is seen only when you right-click on one of those icons and info pic appears. If you choose to make 4 indestructible cities in one province you will see 4 the same icons in the review panel. I hope it won't ruin the whole thing for you.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  8. #8
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I have to stop you here. As you can see in my quote in the first post:



    All icons have to use "forest clearing.bif" (to be indestructible) so they all looks exactly the same. The difference is seen only when you right-click on one of those icons and info pic appears. If you choose to make 4 indestructible cities in one province you will see 4 the same icons in the review panel. I hope it won't ruin the whole thing for you.
    I see, it certainly complicated stuff, but I guess before your discovery it was used for Trade Centers, so de facto large cities.

    We could use a generic 'city' icon for all those city states etc.

    Seems to bury my political structures idea, but I guess I like city states/trade centers more than that. Certainly adds another layer of diversity to our map and that is pretty big.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Alright, let's Start.

    Free Imperial City of Lübeck

    In 1226 Emperor Frederick II declared the city of Lübeck to be a Free Imperial City. Lübeck law was the constitution of the city's municipal form of government developed after being made a free city. In theory, Lübeck law made the cities which had adopted it independent of royalty. In the 14th century Lübeck became the "Queen of the Hanseatic League", being by far the largest and most powerful member of this medieval trade organization. Though Lübeck's power slowly declined after involving in the Count's Feud in 1530s and the the Hanseatic League lost importance because the new transatlantic orientation of European trade, Lübeck still remained an important trading town on the Baltic Sea after the de facto disbandment of the Hanseatic League in 1669.

    Free Imperial City of Nuremberg

    After Nuremberg gained piecemeal independence from the Burgraviate of Nuremberg in the High Middle Ages and considerable territory from Bavaria in the Landshut War of Succession, it grew to become one of the largest and most important Imperial cities, the 'unofficial capital' of the Empire, particularly because Imperial Diets and courts met at Nuremberg Castle. The Diets of Nuremberg were an important part of the administrative structure of the Empire. The Golden Bull of 1356, issued by Emperor Charles IV, named Nuremberg as the city where newly elected kings of Germany must hold their first Imperial Diet, making Nuremberg one of the three highest cities of the Empire. With the cultural flowering in the 15th and 16th centuries, Nuremberg also became the center of the German Renaissance.

    P.S.
    @Ceg

    you have said that the Franconia province has been divided into Franconia and Sachsen, but I also remember you had mention the Rhenish province in a post many years ago. Is Rhenish province still exist? If it is the list need some adjustment.
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-20-2016 at 10:14.

  10. #10
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    What's the purpose of all those cities or any other similar structures? Will they have any impact on the game or they will just.. increase historical feeling of the mod?
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  11. #11
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Many.

    Decreasing loyalty, some can be given ability to recruit units, but overall it is to replace the trade centers with something which looks and feels better.

    Will take a while to use them in the game. I'd like to have a couple in 1.6 to test how it works and feels, besides I am quite fond of Danzig in this period.

  12. #12
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    P.S.
    @Ceg[/B]
    you have said that the Franconia province has been divided into Franconia and Sachsen, but I also remember you had mention the Rhenish province in a post many years ago. Is Rhenish province still exist? If it is the list need some adjustment.
    I am not sure yet. Right now there are so many discoveries that it might or might not be added + the shape and names of the provinces in Germany have to be changed a bit.

    For now continue to create the list. Coats of arms are great for info_pics which will have to be created eventually.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Indestructable structures and their uses.

    If Rhenish Province is exist, that the city list of Franconia will change to :

    Franconia Province:
    Free Imperial city of Frankfurt

    Rhenish Province:
    Free Imperial city of Aachen
    Free Imperial city of Cologne
    (another idea is, do not put any Free Imperial city in Rhenish, instead, put:
    Electorate of Mainz
    Electorate of Trier
    Electorate of Cologne
    )

    Free Imperial City of Frankfurt

    Frankfurt was a major city of the Holy Roman Empire, being the seat of imperial elections since 885 and the city for imperial coronations from 1562 (previously in Free Imperial City of Aachen) until 1792. Frankfurt was declared an Imperial Free City (Reichsstadt) in 1372, making the city an entity of Imperial immediacy, meaning immediately subordinate to the Holy Roman Emperor and not to a regional ruler or a local nobleman.

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