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Thread: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

  1. #1

    Default Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    I know there is already an unit anim thread but I think this is important so I start a new thread.

    Before BG can find some time to draw his landskenchts for PMTW, I decide to try to convert my favourite landsknecht unit by Kinboat(from the CFC forum) from Civ3 to MTW, thanks to my experience of converting Civ3 unit to EU2-ftg, it is not too difficult to me.

    Let me show a quick test, just one standing frame of the landsknecht:


    Two screenshot in game, the first one shows the unit anim at its original size, while in the second one I increase the size to 220 using the gnome editor:




    As you notice, it has no faction colour now, but I think it is possible to add later by replacing the colour plate.
    And the height of the landsknecht is just about 4/5 to 3/4 of the PMtW unit anim left to him, though I increase its size too 220. Nothing more I can do to this…

    Generally speaking I'm statisfied with its performance in game. What do you think of it? Making a full animation cost many time, if you think it is worth to do so I would like to finish at least the landsknecht graphic.


    One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)
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    Last edited by zweihander; 02-26-2016 at 03:18.

  2. #2
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    And the height of the landsknecht is just about 4/5 to 3/4 of the PMtW unit anim left to him, though I increase its size too 220. Nothing more I can do to this…
    You can increase the soldier size (texture) 2 times and then scale them down to appropriate size via SCALE factor in UNIT_PROD. Of course, it can be a problem to fit all soldier poses in one texture.

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    Generally speaking I'm statisfied with its performance in game. What do you think of it? Making a full animation cost many time, if you think it is worth to do so I would like to finish at least the landsknecht graphic.
    Could you upload any unit animations form Civ3? I'd like to see the format they use.

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)
    I'd drop 4, 8 and 12th frame. It will cause a little jumps in animation but probably unnoticeable.
    Last edited by Stazi; 02-20-2016 at 19:08.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    I'm not at my computer now so can't upload anything. However, you can find civ3 units here:http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

    They're in flc format, and there is a tool to convert them into pcx.
    Please read these two thread, they explain a lot about them:
    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...st-hour.679417
    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...n-units.741529

  4. #4
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Brilliant. I planned to do it myself and got permissions for that from CIv3 forum.

    Sadly my graphics skills are almost non existent and I've barely managed to deal with icons and info_info pics.

    Those animations would be perfect.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    -DELETE-

    Edit:OK, I fix it, It is becasue the way I calculate x0, y0
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-21-2016 at 12:45.

  6. #6
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)
    Just checked it and animation without 4, 8 and 12th frame still looks good enough for me.

    15 frames
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    12 frames
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    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    Just checked it and animation without 4, 8 and 12th frame still looks good enough for me.

    15 frames
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    12 frames
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    Thansks, I did that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    You can increase the soldier size (texture) 2 times and then scale them down to appropriate size via SCALE factor in UNIT_PROD. Of course, it can be a problem to fit all soldier poses in one texture.
    I check them in battle and found that the size is acceptable if I increase the scale to 225. Don't need this method, but thank you anyway!

    ---------------------------------------------

    Ok, the full landsknecht animation is done. Anyone want to test it ingame can download it from the attachment of this post.
    But still no faction colour yet, haven't find a way to add it.

    The Screenshots show that Bavarian Doppelsoldners fighting the Saxon Pikemen:



    Quality not good enough, as I expected.

    And sadly, civ3 anims don't differentiate Walk, Run and Charge action, so they use the same in game.

    ---------------

    Edit:

    Re-upload the Doppelsoldner.RAR file.
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    Last edited by zweihander; 02-21-2016 at 09:49.

  8. #8
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

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    It works ok, only shadow it's too big IMHO. But you can leave it for now. Details like this can be changed in the end when we will have nothing else to do.
    Soldiers are still too small so reducing the size of other units is a must.

    EDIT
    It's strange. On your screens they look nearly the same size but on mine they are way too small although I set scale to 225.

    EDIT2
    They are ok. Forget all about the size I wrote above.
    Last edited by Stazi; 02-21-2016 at 09:48.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
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    It works ok, only shadow it's too big IMHO. But you can leave it for now. Details like this can be changed in the end when we will have nothing else to do.
    Soldiers are still too small so reducing the size of other units is a must.

    EDIT
    It's strange. On your screens they look nearly the same size but on mine they are way too small although I set scale to 225.
    I suggest you to use this BIF, which I haven't change to blue palette to green... I upload the green one by mistake, will reupload it.

    Any way to add faction colour?
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-21-2016 at 09:47.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Alright, a faction colour version is done! Not perfect though.




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  11. #11
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    Any way to add faction colour?
    My method is probably not very professional but works for me. btw I use Photoshop CS6.

    Start with creating two palettes - one for pinks only and one for greens only. Something like this:
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    1. Select the area you want to change into faction colors.

    2. Make a new layer with the selected area

    3. Duplicate the layer to the new file

    4. Change the image mode (of the new file) to the indexed color. In the popup window choose Custom palette and find one of those two palettes you created. Photoshop will change and remap colors automatically.
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    5. If the result satisfies you copy the selected area again and paste it into the layer you created in 2nd step.

    6. Repeat steps for all green/pink areas.

    7. When done you will have to flatten the image and change to indexed color. Of course, you will need full palette containing all the colors to properly transform the image to the indexed mode.
    Last edited by Stazi; 02-21-2016 at 12:05.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Thanks Stazi!
    I found that colours in the last two line of the colour table will show as faction colour ingame, no mater they're Green/Pink or not:

    My method to add faction colour is: open the frame 1.bmp with GIMP, open the colour table, drag the colours you want to show as faction colour to the last two line, save this bmp. Use this bmp as the tamplate, copy other frame on it and save.
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  13. #13
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    I like your method. It's certainly faster than mine. Good work!
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  14. #14
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Very good.

    I usually copied/pasted to opened .BMP files extracted from the game replacing old animations.



    About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

    If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.


    @zweihander

    If mounts give us free graphic entries to use it is safe to give the Landsknechts two animation directories occupied by mounts Stazi will clear.

    If you really need more tell us, but two is rather generous.


    CiV3 animations give a number of interesting options. Personally I am interested in armoured handgunners in a Russian pack.

    It will be useful for a number of units in E Europe esp. Russia and Georgia, perhaps even Persia.

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    If you don't know which pack it is from I'll try to locate it.


    Overall if we can clear some directories they can be used. Perhaps even one for more than one type of animation. Seems to be easier with handgunner/musketeer units and we really need some diversity - something for the Balcans (Albania, Greece) and Turkey, something for Scotland and something more for muslim states. If we could use larger frames they all probably could fit into one or two directories.
    Last edited by cegorach; 02-21-2016 at 15:25.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.
    Now, the problem was that game crashes occured as the newly defined faction left the campaign
    map for the battle map--oddly this crash would only occur with certain units (e.g., peasants,
    highland clansmen, kerns, etc.). I discovered that only those units which were culled from texture
    folders associated with face-shields caused the crash. Units drawn from texture folders which are
    Adding New Faction Guide for Viking Invasion
    21
    not associated with face-shields (e.g., archers--which use the texture folder "Pestunic")do not
    cause a battle crash. Therefore newly defined factions, such as FN_FREE21 //WELSH, cannot
    utilize units which are drawn from the following bif texture folders, as they are associated with
    face-shields:
    "Peasant"
    "ChainHlm"
    "HlPlArSH"
    "LArmWCav"
    "MKnight"
    "MSHelm"
    "PlateS"
    -----Adding New Faction in VI guide, By starkhorn

    As I know, only these 7 folder will cause CTD.

    Currently, I simply place the new landskencht anim into LtOpHelm, which is the currently folder for Doppelsoldner unit, the other units in PMTW also using this folder are Gallowglass and Opolcheniye. I move Gallowglass and Opolcheniye to use the 'Peasant' anim. No idea you would like this idea or not...

    Here is a unit I want to convert(and I have already converted it to FTG! which will reduce my work to convert it to MTW), the Estalian Swordsman, it would be useful for those Sword&Shield units in PMTW.

    But unfortunately, converting the landsknecht cost me a whole day, as school days begin, I would not have time to convert Civ3 uits anymore, at least recently.

    Actually, converting civ3 units is not very difficult but need time and great patience. If any one want to learn how to convert, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-21-2016 at 16:46.

  16. #16
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

    If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.
    Ok. I'll check it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    If any one want to learn how to convert Civ3 units, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)
    Please, write it as detailed as you can. I hope I'll get the idea.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  17. #17
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    -----Adding New Faction in VI guide, By starkhorn

    As I know, only these 7 folder will cause CTD.
    I know, but with so many discoveries we might also meet new problems and I want to be true with the horses/camels before we clear those directions for our needs.

    Currently, I simply place the new landskencht anim into LtOpHelm, which is the currently folder for Doppelsoldner unit, the other units in PMTW also using this folder are Gallowglass and Opolcheniye. I move Gallowglass and Opolcheniye to use the 'Peasant' anim. No idea you would like this idea or not...
    Yes, it is fine. Opolcheniye will be altered somehow anyway, right now it appears way too often. Gallowglass might need new animations if we find time and space - could be useful for some Georgian and Circassian units, perhaps even for something in the Balcans and elsewhere.


    Actually, converting civ3 units is not very difficult but need time and great patience. If any one want to learn how to convert, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)
    Oh, yes - the end of the New Year break. I've forgotten about it.

    We have time for the animations. If the Dopplen. animations are done we can have them in 1.6. - the rest can wait so no hurry.


    I'll stick the thread because it deserves to be close to the top.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    This is a guide of CIv3 unit conversion.

    1,Basic infomation about Civ3 unit graphic:

    First, you can find civ3 units here:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...p?do=cat&id=23
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

    the unit graphic of Civ3 are in FLC format, now, download the FLICster. And open the FLC file with FLICster, you can view the animations in this program:

    Now export them into PCX format, click Export, click Export Type, and use this setting:

    Then set the Output Directory and click 'Export', you get 8 PCX file now.

    2, See the PCX file
    The PCX file looks like this:

    Now, we have 3 problem that hinder us to turn the PCX into MTW bif format:
    1, the background colour is not 0,128,0
    2, the shadow colour is not black
    3, this is most important, the Civ3 engine allow the edge of the unit surround by many semi-transparent magenta pixels, which represent shadows in Civ3 engine. But the MTW engine doesn't allow this, the edge of the unit must be 'sharp' in MTW engine.

    3, Get rid of the problems
    Now let's get rid of these 3 issues.

    Open the PCX with GIMP

    Change the picture to RGB mode (it is in IMAGE > MODE)

    Set the Foreground color to 0,128,0 , and set the Background color to black.

    Choose the 'select by color tool' on the Toolbox.

    Further down on the Toolbox, uncheck the Edge Smoothing and reduce 'Threshold' from the default value of 15 down to zero. This will allow you to choose a single colour on the image instead of several similar ones.

    Use the 'select by color tool', and click the center part of the shadow of a unit frame. Now you select the main part of the shadow, but still some shadow pixels around in lighter colour are not under your selection.

    press Shift, and select the lighter colour shadow pixels around to add them in your selection, continue doing this until all shadow pixels of this PCX are under your selection.

    now, press 'ctrl' and '.' at the same time, now all pxiels under your selection are fill with the Background color(black).

    Use the 'select by color tool' again, this time we frist click the pink background. Now you select the main part of the background, but still some shadow pixels around the unit in lighter pink are not under your selection.

    press Shift, and select the lighter pink pixels around the unit to add them in your selection, continue doing this until all pink pixels of this PCX are under your selection.

    now, press 'ctrl' and ',' at the same time, now all pxiels under your selection are fill with the Foreground color(0,128,0).

    Until now we're get rid of all the 3 issues we have mention above, save the PCX in a format you prefer.

    4, Next step?
    I want to say nothing more about the next step, chop up the image you have already deal with, create a new BMP file, and put the units into the correct place of the 12 frame of BMPs...

    Please ask me if you meet any problem.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    I know, but with so many discoveries we might also meet new problems and I want to be true with the horses/camels before we clear those directions for our needs.



    Yes, it is fine. Opolcheniye will be altered somehow anyway, right now it appears way too often. Gallowglass might need new animations if we find time and space - could be useful for some Georgian and Circassian units, perhaps even for something in the Balcans and elsewhere.




    Oh, yes - the end of the New Year break. I've forgotten about it.

    We have time for the animations. If the Dopplen. animations are done we can have them in 1.6. - the rest can wait so no hurry.


    I'll stick the thread because it deserves to be close to the top.
    Thanks for stick the thread!
    The doppelsoldner unit anim is finished, the file in the #10 post is the final version.(Edit the file in post #30 now)
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-23-2016 at 16:17.

  20. #20
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

    If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.

    For tests I chose Mousquetaires Du Roi because the unit uses "critical" MSHelm folder. For horses I chose the most popular LiHorse forder.

    First, I gave them to ALL_FACTIONS and started a few custom battles. Unfortunately, this unit cause CTD with new factions like Khazan, Livonia, etc. The new 1024p textures, obviously, cause CTD too.

    Second, I changed the texture in LiHorse and MSHelm folders (leaving Mousquetaires Du Roi to FN_FRENCH as intended). This time all worked smoothly. No crashes.

    Both steps were tested with several different units and faction setups.

    Conclusions:

    1. Technically, 1024p textures works the same as 512p. CTDs are caused by "critical" folders and new factions, not textures.

    2. Resizing mount textures to 1024p have to be followed by resizing all riders' folders (they have to be proportional because mounts don't have their own SCALE parameter). It involves changing/tuning all animations rectangles. Weapons and shields too. The whole procedure makes cavalry smaller so all infantry has to be scaled down accordingly or changed to 1024p too. Smaller models need also changes in UNIT_PROD (parameters like: RADIUS, FORMATION_WIDTH_SPACING, FORMATION_LENGTH_SPACING). Without it all units looks like in loose formation all the time. It looks the same like reducing a unit SCALE - leaves too much space between soldiers.

    The whole process is quite easy but very time consuming. It can be done for 2.0 but probably not for 1.6.
    All this testing thing gave me some new ideas. I let you know if I find something interesting.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

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  21. #21
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Ok, so we cannot use this approach unless ALL graphic files for units are changed as well? Is that right?

    Have you encountered any problems with the palette e.g. some animations are impossible to import to the same, larger file with other animations? I think it could be a problem in some cases.


    There are units in the game which are using Shogun TW and Middle Earth mod graphics - almost only for Tartar cavalry.

    I wonder if LiHorse horses and those animations where the WHOLE horse & rider is placed can be thrown into the same file (similar colours should help) and used as a testing subjects.
    I wonder if in the case of combined horse & rider supported by imported LiHorse graphics animations manipulating the scale will be easier and give us something which can be fielded side by side with the older graphics.

    Original LiHorse would stay where it is right now, but this new file could include Tartars and horse animations from LiHorse (besides it is necessary for Tartar units with two steeds) - this way it could work better and won't require too many changes + could serve us well in the future saving space and in the end clear original LiHorse directory for something else.





    BTW I realise how time consuming the process is, but perhaps in thise unique case results will be easier to implement without the need to change all animations in the game.

    Also, does Middle Earth or Napoleonic TW have other mount animations? I mean white or black horses. If in the end we will find ourselves with so much space in graphic files and all cavalrymen animations will have to be changed anyway we could add some variety also in this department.

    Just to be clear I have permission to use NTW animations, but not LOTR graphics except the single one PMTW uses already.

    Anyway that is for the much, much later stage.


    I am looking forward to the new ideas if there are any. New graphics can wait, but if we learn more about those files it will save us some trouble in the future.

    If for example we get rid off the 'troublesome', CTD causing directories because we won't need them anymore that would be a nice bonus, even though the units which use them are meant to be rare and unlikely to be received by bribery.
    Last edited by cegorach; 02-22-2016 at 16:28.

  22. #22
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Ok, so we cannot use this approach unless ALL graphic files for units are changed as well? Is that right?
    Generally, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Have you encountered any problems with the palette e.g. some animations are impossible to import to the same, larger file with other animations? I think it could be a problem in some cases.
    I haven't encountered any problems till now. What do you have in mind exactly?


    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    There are units in the game which are using Shogun TW and Middle Earth mod graphics - almost only for Tartar cavalry.
    Yes, I saw them. Not all of them are used right now (in 1.5). IIRC textures from folders: MONGHCAV, PLATECAV and PLATES are not used at all in any of the 3 campaigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    I wonder if LiHorse horses and those animations where the WHOLE horse & rider is placed can be thrown into the same file (similar colours should help) and used as a testing subjects.
    Do you mean like that mongol heavy cavalry from MONGHCAV folder combined with LiHorse texture? I think it'll work. You already use KHorse and EHorse folders for something totally different than horses. btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire (I'm not sure about camel because there is a special column in UNIT_PROD file that specifies HORSE/CAMEL/NONE). But I think it only works that way when those folders are used for mounts.


    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    I wonder if in the case of combined horse & rider supported by imported LiHorse graphics animations manipulating the scale will be easier and give us something which can be fielded side by side with the older graphics.
    Hmm.. nice idea. You mean like placing rider over a horse in one texture, in the same frame, right? This can work but rider combined with horse will make much bigger frames and thus less space for other units in texture.


    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Original LiHorse would stay where it is right now, but this new file could include Tartars and horse animations from LiHorse (besides it is necessary for Tartar units with two steeds) - this way it could work better and won't require too many changes + could serve us well in the future saving space and in the end clear original LiHorse directory for something else.
    If I understand it right, horses combined with riders won't save us that much space. As I said above, such animations will have much bigger frames, especially that you'll need to resize htem up at least 50% to have some space for SCALE manipulation. When you put 512p textures into 1024p texture, soldiers are always too small comparing to old ones (even with maxed SCALE). Hmm.. I'll make one unit in 1024p and you'll see how it looks.


    BTW I realise how time consuming the process is, but perhaps in thise unique case results will be easier to implement without the need to change all animations in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Also, does Middle Earth or Napoleonic TW have other mount animations? I mean white or black horses.
    LOTR has one black horse. It's just recolored LiHorse.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Just to be clear I have permission to use NTW animations, but not LOTR graphics except the single one PMTW uses already.
    A few years ago I sent PMs to all creators form Middle-Eaath team I found. The one that answered said me something like "do whatever you want. No one really cares now".
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  23. #23
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I haven't encountered any problems till now. What do you have in mind exactly?
    Some files in PMTW include animations which were set to very specific colours, I do believe that if four different animations will be used in a single file it can cause some problems.

    I'd suggest to try it in some cases - a single pose from a file each should be enough to see if the animations can 'co-exist' in the same file.




    Yes, I saw them. Not all of them are used right now (in 1.5). IIRC textures from folders: MONGHCAV, PLATECAV and PLATES are not used at all in any of the 3 campaigns.
    They are in 2.0 and will be used in 1.6.



    Do you mean like that mongol heavy cavalry from MONGHCAV folder combined with LiHorse texture? I think it'll work. You already use KHorse and EHorse folders for something totally different than horses. btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire (I'm not sure about camel because there is a special column in UNIT_PROD file that specifies HORSE/CAMEL/NONE). But I think it only works that way when those folders are used for mounts.
    Something like that, but also in general files which right now feature a whole rider on a horse, and combined with a separate horse animation (LiHorse) on this 4 times bigger picture.




    Hmm.. nice idea. You mean like placing rider over a horse in one texture, in the same frame, right? This can work but rider combined with horse will make much bigger frames and thus less space for other units in texture.
    Actually I thought about using the same file for four animations - including one of a horse and another with a rider on a horse (Tartar animations from STW) - placing them in the same 1024x1024 file could serve as a nice field for testing - to see how rider on a horse looks like compared to cavalry using old, 512x512 files.
    Because this cavalry animation sometimes has to use two mounts (one unit) as I wanted it would be a nice place to keep LiHorse animation intended for future cavalry.
    Right now it could be used to check if the problem with the scale can be solved by placing horse animation in the same place as rider animation and only by manipulating with numbers in unit_prod file.

    Think of it as a temporary solution and a way to test something.




    If I understand it right, horses combined with riders won't save us that much space. As I said above, such animations will have much bigger frames, especially that you'll need to resize htem up at least 50% to have some space for SCALE manipulation. When you put 512p textures into 1024p texture, soldiers are always too small comparing to old ones (even with maxed SCALE). Hmm.. I'll make one unit in 1024p and you'll see how it looks.
    I had to cut stuff from Shogun TW animations because STW graphics use two files for cavalry instead of one, so Tartars do not use all of moves available in STW, but about half of them (it was very had to choose).

    On bigger 1024p files ALL STW graphics could be used and would take just a half of 1024p file. But it is perfectly enough if only current Tartar riding horse animation is imported and tested to see how a rider on a horse looks like and how much different can it be with different scale compared to the current cavalry.





    LOTR has one black horse. It's just recolored LiHorse.

    A few years ago I sent PMs to all creators form Middle-Eaath team I found. The one that answered said me something like "do whatever you want. No one really cares now".
    This means that black horses are available. White/grey ones can be used from NTW.

    If one 1024p file will be used eventually for four mounts one LiHorse directory will give us a dazzling variety of unarmoured horses and will help in making some units visually different from others which use the very same rider animation.

    In such a case:

    btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire
    one of those two directories could be given to better protected mounts or for units which had more than one mount kept in a reserve - something which doesn't have to be visable.

  24. #24
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    P.S. When it comes to PMTW animations we were trying to squeeze as much as possible in a single file.

    This means that sometimes various units use various parts of a file. Could be a nightmare to convert to 1024p.

    I'll better post images of the new map how I see it and upload the files.

    It should be ready to Friday. I'll have to compare it to the event list before it is done.
    It is better to use as many useful & meaningful event features as possible.

  25. #25
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    If one 1024p file will be used eventually for four mounts one LiHorse directory will give us a dazzling variety of unarmoured horses and will help in making some units visually different from others which use the very same rider animation.
    Horses can have faction coloring like any other units. We can recolor some parts like harness or blanket under the saddle so every faction will have their own, slightly different looking horses.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

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    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Of course, but a variety of horses would be a nice thing.

    Not now, but in the end when the conversion to 1024p is complete.

    We have nothing but time for that if Civ3 animations can be converted relatively easily.


    Easily compared to what we had to do before with YanTraken - he was drawing the poses and I've been copying/pasting them into .BMPs frame by frame and setting that in the game. Wonders of Windows Paint and MTW modding tools.




    If even 8 new animations are added in the end it will be huge.

    Hell, maybe I'll try to learn how to import Aztec and Inca warriors for custom game/MP game only factions.

    Thanks to your discoveries we have at least a possibility and that is a lot.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Easily compared to what we had to do before with YanTraken - he was drawing the poses and I've been copying/pasting them into .BMPs frame by frame and setting that in the game. Wonders of Windows Paint and MTW modding tools.


    I know many unit anims in PMTW such as the RussianMusketeer(Str…), CossackMusketeer(Zapo…), Janissary, Free Lancer, Men at Arm etc. are obviously made by hand-drawing. But I'm curious about the Winged Hussar, which is the best quality unit anim and even better than the original MTW's, are they hand-drawing or convert to 2d from a 3d model?
    (p.s. IIRC once I have saw a early Winged Hussar with only one wing animation in a directory(forget which one now), but I never see them in game? )

    And as I said before, I have ask BG to draw some landsknechts(but he is quite busy right now), so I would just consider the Civ3 Landsknecht a tempory solution of the Doppelsoldner unit for 1.6--after all it is not in the best quality due to the original image's small size. What I have not mention brfore is that I ask BC to draw 4 kinds of landsknecht(Doppelsoldner, Forlorn hope, armoured Pike/Halberd/Musket, unarmoured Pike/halberd/Musket), and I was worry about there are no enough directories for them before. But not a problem right now! Once the 1024p method is done, I can easily put the 4 landsknechts in one bif, since they would be in similar colour it would not be hard to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
    Hell, maybe I'll try to learn how to import Aztec and Inca warriors for custom game/MP game only factions.
    Well… Not a good idea IMO. Just think it is ridiculus to see Native Americans fighting in Europe…

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Another problem I met is, if you want to add dead bodies in PMTW, and you use the 1024p method at the same time, you will find that when you increase the unit scale to 225, its dead body is increase to 225% size too, it means that a small man died on the battlefield would leave a giant dead body… Edit/remake the dead_bodies.LBM is necessary.
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-26-2016 at 03:20.

  28. #28
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    But I'm curious about the Winged Hussar, which is the best quality unit anim and even better than the original MTW's, are they hand-drawing or convert to 2d from a 3d model?
    (p.s. IIRC once I have saw a early Winged Hussar with only one wing animation in a directory(forget which one now), but I never see them in game? )
    Eastside Character made the original drawing (no poses, 4 angles) and YanTraken improved it.
    One-wing Hussars are available in one campaign for P-L Commonwealth. It was designed with historical battles in mind.

    And as I said before, I have ask BC to draw some landsknechts(but he is quite busy right now), so I would just consider the Civ3 Landsknecht a tempory solution of the Doppelsoldner unit for 1.6--after all it is not in the best quality due to the original image's small size. What I have not mention brfore is that I ask BC to draw 4 kinds of landsknecht(Doppelsoldner, Forlorn hope, armoured Pike/Halberd/Musket, unarmoured Pike/halberd/Musket), and I was worry about there are no enough directories for them before. But not a problem right now! Once the 1024p method is done, I can easily put the 4 landsknechts in one bif, since they would be in similar colour it would not be hard to do so.
    It is A LOT already. One of my favourite units actually, so nice somebody did the actual work.



    Well… Not a good idea IMO. Just think it is ridiculus to see Native Americans fighting in Europe…
    Just for custom battles, much like Iroquis or Uzbeks.

  29. #29
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Quote Originally Posted by zweihander View Post
    Another problem I met is, if you want to add dead bodies in PMTW, and you use the 1024p method at the same time, you will find that when you increase the unit scale to 225, its dead body is increase to 225% size too, it means that a small man died on the battlefield would leave a giant dead body… Edit/remake the dead_bodies.LBM is necessary.
    That's why I'm think we shouldn't try to keep the original unit size but rework all units to 1024p and leave them smaller (without changing the scale or eventually setting the same scale for all units). If we try to manipulate the scale of certain units, some bodies will be always bigger than others.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Converting Civilization3 unit animations

    Update the Civ3 Doppelsoldner unit graphic. I fix some missing pixels manually, it should performs better ingame now.






    Edit: Ah... Sorry, fix a little bug, please download again...

    Edit2: oh no, the attachment contains the wrong file, please download again... I promise this is the last edit...
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by zweihander; 02-23-2016 at 10:48.

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