Bomb attacks on Brussels airport

[Husar]

Either circumstance is appalling. Of course the fundamental problem is not the nonexistence of that added security check (the point was that it can work without any real issues and can help avoid something like this), but rather the fact that the same kind of people keep murdering rampantly in largely the same areas and the governments that should be doing something about it appear to be unable to cope with it.

I think unwilling is more likely. Security services seem to be starved of finances and troublemakers are not reigned in anymore as they used to be. I prefer a peaceful approach to problem solving as most should be aware here, but if you have chronic troublemakers I'd step up the game and stop them with far more force than is legally allowed nowadays.
That does not mean throw all muslims out or racially cleanse the country, but as I said earlier, why were the people who rioted over the arrest of a terrorist not rounded up and arrested for a start?

[Fragony]

These are the moments where you count to ten Hussie, it's horrible what happened no doubt. But it shouldn't really come as a surprise. Very high on my wtfdidyouexpect-list all this

[Husar]

These are the moments where you count to ten Hussie, it's horrible what happened no doubt. But it shouldn't really come as a surprise.

I didn't say I'm surprised and I've said before that we should be much harsher with people who think we are a victim culture. I just don't agree with blaming everyone who wears a hijab, building walls everywhere and having more and more controls of everyone. Fight the terror and not the citizens. Proper police investigation that catches them before they get to blow anyone up is much better than reducing the number of people who get blown up. Sadly this kind of investigative work is really lacking in some countries here, much easier to plaster airports with security and pretend everything is fine now.

And then you have these people who say each country should do its own thing and then a Belgian moves to Paris and after he blew up a lot of people the Belgians tell the French "oh yeah, he was definitely a suspect, we knew that for a while!". Yeah well, let's just cooperate only on a business level, nothing that could go wrong.

[Fragony]

I didn't say I'm surprised and I've said before that we should be much harsher with people who think we are a victim culture. I just don't agree with blaming everyone who wears a hijab, building walls everywhere and having more and more controls of everyone. Fight the terror and not the citizens. Proper police investigation that catches them before they get to blow anyone up is much better than reducing the number of people who get blown up. Sadly this kind of investigative work is really lacking in some countries here, much easier to plaster airports with security and pretend everything is fine now.

And then you have these people who say each country should do its own thing and then a Belgian moves to Paris and after he blew up a lot of people the Belgians tell the French "oh yeah, he was definitely a suspect, we knew that for a while!". Yeah well, let's just cooperate only on a business level, nothing that could go wrong.

Cursed with genuinly good intentions, musn't resonate all that well with reality sometimes ;)

[Husar]

Cursed with genuinly good intentions, musn't resonate all that well with reality sometimes ;)

Because reality is all black and white?

I'm curious, what do you mean by "far more force than is legally allowed nowadays"? Torture is generally proven to be a very bad way of gathering information.

No, I'm talking about things such as no-go-zones where "police can't go". What's so hard about sending a few men in with backup nearby to lure out the troublemakers, record them on video and then hunt them down with the backup? Beat them or shoot them if necessary, but just cowering in the police station because you're afraid to go outside or hurt someone is hardly a solution. There was a story in a respectable newspaper where a victim identified the family that stole all the wedding gowns from her store and when she called police they didn't do anything because the entire family of perpetrators "is probably armed". Well, go away and come back with more men, then surround and arrest, if they shoot back, kill them. I have little patience for this kind of excuse. We have all kinds of special forces to deal with such situations but then we let these people exploit us even when we know exactly what is going on. That's a political and policing issue.
There is such a thing as being too hard on crime, but also being too soft. It's especially perverse when robbers and murderers get away with it while the government runs TV ads about how downloading a movie can lead to you getting raped in jail...

[Fragony]

Because reality is all black and white?

Wouldn't that be nice.

[Snowhobbit]

No, I'm talking about things such as no-go-zones where "police can't go". What's so hard about sending a few men in with backup nearby to lure out the troublemakers, record them on video and then hunt them down with the backup? Beat them or shoot them if necessary, but just cowering in the police station because you're afraid to go outside or hurt someone is hardly a solution. There was a story in a respectable newspaper where a victim identified the family that stole all the wedding gowns from her store and when she called police they didn't do anything because the entire family of perpetrators "is probably armed". Well, go away and come back with more men, then surround and arrest, if they shoot back, kill them. I have little patience for this kind of excuse. We have all kinds of special forces to deal with such situations but then we let these people exploit us even when we know exactly what is going on. That's a political and policing issue.
There is such a thing as being too hard on crime, but also being too soft. It's especially perverse when robbers and murderers get away with it while the government runs TV ads about how downloading a movie can lead to you getting raped in jail...

We have the same issue in Sweden, is it a German issue as well? Obviously yes, the answer should be to crack down. Though given the risk to the poor police officers in that little bait action, I personally would prefer a larger show of force with full on riot-police and possibly army assistance if the situation calls for that. To my knowledge the police have a right to use lethal force if they are forced to in order to defend themselves or someone else, hopefully less violent resolutions than killings on a grand scale can be used though. Such as subduing with gas, water cannons etc. But if needs must then needs must. We've had a lot of issues all of a sudden with women safety being threatened in a way which has not happened for over 800 years, and a plains clothes policewoman trailed by a bunch of big strong colleagues would go a long way towards catching the assholes who don't understand they're not in the Arab world anymore.

Did you see the 60 minutes Australia report last Sunday? Very telling of the police status in that area. The man in the wheelchair should get a fricken medal though.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is not something that I wanted as a part of Holy Week. More people to add to my prayers and fewer people who can focus on life's joys.

All very sad.

[Snowhobbit]

I think unwilling is more likely. Security services seem to be starved of finances and troublemakers are not reigned in anymore as they used to be. I prefer a peaceful approach to problem solving as most should be aware here, but if you have chronic troublemakers I'd step up the game and stop them with far more force than is legally allowed nowadays.
That does not mean throw all muslims out or racially cleanse the country, but as I said earlier, why were the people who rioted over the arrest of a terrorist not rounded up and arrested for a start?

I'm curious, what do you mean by "far more force than is legally allowed nowadays"? Torture is generally proven to be a very bad way of gathering information. I'm sure there is some law in Belgium about support for terrorism etc that could be applied, or if not then written pronto. I've not read any news about riots after the arrest of the terrorist the other day, could you link some news article or suchlike?

Of course catching them before they strike is better than minimizing the causalities and nothing else. But doing both reduces human suffering and keeps the citizenry safer than otherwise at what to me seems like a very reasonable price.