IKEA mafia [Concluded]

[El Barto]

I haven't, I've just read the last 50-100 posts and noticed how 'khaan simply balked. GH is still scummy to me, and you haven't answered my question of why Jarrema can die in a fire. (and also why you don't like me but that can be a carryover from my extremely kawaii antics on CFC)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I haven't, I've just read the last 50-100 posts and noticed how 'khaan simply balked. GH is still scummy to me, and you haven't answered my question of why Jarrema can die in a fire. (and also why you don't like me but that can be a carryover from my extremely kawaii antics on CFC)

El Barto- I adore you as a person and a player.

I felt several of your opening posts were scummy. That's all it meant. It was mild and vague.

AORN: Not sure. I wouldn't call you a villager yet. But if I were to look at a universe where somehow GH and Khaan or Khaan-slot and myself and my n0 peek and Visor and yourself, let's say, were all villagers, the game becomes much simpler.

Jarema always gets lynched today, and I might go choxorn after that, or peek him.

[GeneralHankerchief]

What we have here is a case of people judging me by their standards when they should be judging me by my standards.

We've all made the "lol GH is older than the dinosaurs" type of jokes when nominating me to the championships, but there's truth behind those statements, and you all know I'm pretty stuck in my ways. One of those ways is me taking the first couple of rounds to really warm up in a game and take it all in. Well, that was the case on the .Org for years and years.

It was also the case for a while during the revival starting last year. But at a certain point, this changed. I think it was Visor's Snake Cult game where he brought in a lot of folks from outside. And then, pressing down hard on the gas right from the start became the new normal. People are now demanding reads lists and slapping themselves on the back for getting cases down on Day Friggin One. And that's just not how I operate.

I was able to slide by it for a while, but after the nomination, I know what's in store for me. So I'm trying to adjust. And when people like Zack and you are asking me what I think about the state of the game and making me do stuff I'm far more used to doing (and am far more comfortable with doing) in the endgame on Day Friggin One, of course it's going to sound artificial. Because I have one of two options in these types of scenarios:

Option 1) Come up with cases on people, and have it stand out because the cases are forced.

Option 2) Tell the truth, admit you have no reads, and then come under fire because seeing town/null reads left and right is a classic scumtell, and is, as a matter of fact, what did me in the most recent game before this one.

So yeah, I'm a bit uncomfortable right now, and I'm slightly more than a bit exasperated at this turn of events because I'm trying, but it's obviously not enough.

Now, I could lie to you right now and say that I have a case on somebody right now. That I've done my reads, that I've even attempted to do my reads, and here's what I have down so far. Or, I could tell you the truth and say I have jack squat.

Well, I have jack squat. Right now.

The choice is now up to you to determine how to react to this. This time, you're the one who has two options:

Option 1) Lynch me, wait for me to flip town, and lose my voice for the rest of the game because of the "no talking after death" rule, which I also hate but we'll leave that one for another time.

Option 2) Leave me alive and wait for me to do my own thing at my own pace.

You forget that the times may have changed, but I haven't. Not yet. Judge me on me and not the meta.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ GH

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As an aside, GH look at your day one in Mafia v Cult and compare it to this game. There's enough of a difference where it raised my eyebrows. If that helps you understand it, good. If not, there are more constructive things to do regardless.

[Zack]

Go ahead and replace me, Sooh. I'm entirely done with this game. Later.

seriously?

[Zack]

gh, I think you misunderstand the point of all this. While yeah, d1 reads are going to be mostly crap, it's nice to be able to look back at those reads on later days, especially where spew is concerned (i.e. a dead scumbag's reads and thoughts on d1 can be really nice information to have).

[Zack]

and while finding scum d1 is lol, clearing townies is a very real thing and viable straight from d1.

[El Barto]

El Barto- I adore you as a person and a player.

Squeeee

I felt several of your opening posts were scummy. That's all it meant. It was mild and vague.

Scummy for being scummy or for not being scummy?

Jarema always gets lynched today, and I might go choxorn after that, or peek him.

OK, right, but… why Jarrema?

btw who/what's AORN?

What we have here is a case of people judging me by their standards when they should be judging me by my standards.

Eeeehhhh? This makes very little sense if any at all.

[Zack]

aorn = as of right now

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am composing a post for you, GH. I'll put a tl;dr in it.

[El Barto]

aorn = as of right now

Mmkay.

[Zack]

I'll put a tl;dr in it.

sigh of relief

[El Barto]

D'you think Pizza'll ever get the hang of using spoiler tags?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What we have here is a case of people judging me by their standards when they should be judging me by my standards.

We've all made the "lol GH is older than the dinosaurs" type of jokes when nominating me to the championships, but there's truth behind those statements, and you all know I'm pretty stuck in my ways. One of those ways is me taking the first couple of rounds to really warm up in a game and take it all in. Well, that was the case on the .Org for years and years.

It was also the case for a while during the revival starting last year. But at a certain point, this changed. I think it was Visor's Snake Cult game where he brought in a lot of folks from outside. And then, pressing down hard on the gas right from the start became the new normal. People are now demanding reads lists and slapping themselves on the back for getting cases down on Day Friggin One. And that's just not how I operate.

I was able to slide by it for a while, but after the nomination, I know what's in store for me. So I'm trying to adjust. And when people like Zack and you are asking me what I think about the state of the game and making me do stuff I'm far more used to doing (and am far more comfortable with doing) in the endgame on Day Friggin One, of course it's going to sound artificial. Because I have one of two options in these types of scenarios:

Option 1) Come up with cases on people, and have it stand out because the cases are forced.

Option 2) Tell the truth, admit you have no reads, and then come under fire because seeing town/null reads left and right is a classic scumtell, and is, as a matter of fact, what did me in the most recent game before this one.

So yeah, I'm a bit uncomfortable right now, and I'm slightly more than a bit exasperated at this turn of events because I'm trying, but it's obviously not enough.

Now, I could lie to you right now and say that I have a case on somebody right now. That I've done my reads, that I've even attempted to do my reads, and here's what I have down so far. Or, I could tell you the truth and say I have jack squat.

Well, I have jack squat. Right now.

The choice is now up to you to determine how to react to this. This time, you're the one who has two options:

Option 1) Lynch me, wait for me to flip town, and lose my voice for the rest of the game because of the "no talking after death" rule, which I also hate but we'll leave that one for another time.

Option 2) Leave me alive and wait for me to do my own thing at my own pace.

You forget that the times may have changed, but I haven't. Not yet. Judge me on me and not the meta.

Response to quoted-

I did read it all, and that is mostly fine and good. I have some issues with it, because reasons- Namely, you have been more engaged and looked for more villagers in a previous game not that long ago, as I just said. But, I'm going to call a mercy rule on this. People gettin' irritated, let me just say I've been in situations where villagers were a lot more tunnelly and uncooperative than this game. By leaps and bounds. And it was probably the single biggest weakness of those towns. There has to be a point where everyone realizes nothing is getting done by going in circles. So my position on things are- I think GH looks different and there are real reasons why people could honestly think he's scummy, I think Jarema acted scummy, I didn't totally buy Khaan's defense of GH. And I still have issues with what you're saying right now.

But all of that means very little because, the points have been made, they are what they are. And nothing more will be helpful whether those opinions are correct, or incorrect. Basically, it will just lead to damaging the game more. So, mercy rule means I'm not going to say you're suspicious. Now all I want to talk about is the universe where you're innocent. I don't know if I can really put Khaan in that universe as also innocent, and I don't want to let sub-related stuff impact the game. But for the sake of convenience let's say I put Khaan-slot in that same category of innocent, despite my misgivings about how he chose to defend you.

Then what does the picture of the game look like?

I think Visor is villagery enough. He's on enough villagers' town lists that he's probably on the mafia's villager lists.
I'm not lynching Punisher.

You don't lynch, in that universe-

Askthepizzaguy
Punisher
GH
Khaan-slot
Visor

That's a start.

(IF) Jarema is guilty, those pushing him immediately look great.
(IF) Jarema is innocent, choxorn looks bad because of his vote pattern and what he's choosing to comment on. It's weak but it's something notable.

Issue with lynching Jarema if he's innocent- we learn nothing. Yes, we lynched a scummy townie. And we saved a not-scum GH. By killing a townie.

So what if we just lynched a scum today instead?

TL;DR

Who would people suggest is scum in the universe where Pizza, Punisher, GH, Khaan, Visor, AND Jarema are innocent?

Let's play the game of we're extremely wrong. What does the game look like then?

If you play that game and it's right, somehow the game becomes probably the most productive and badass day one for village ever, despite the sloppiness of how we got there.

Only issue with that game:

If Jarema is guilty, you won't be able to resolve my slot except by lynch, because I proposed this idea. And it can be argued I used any excuse to lynch GH instead of Jarema despite scum-reading Jarema repeatedly.

It's a risk I'd be willing to take. I just want to know if my fellow villagers are equally daring.

[Zack]

khaan was obviously defending gh as a friend. I don't get why that's so hard to see, I'd appreciate if people stop pretending it was alignment-indicative in any way.

[Zack]

I'd be totally fine with just lynching the scummiest lurker.

[Askthepizzaguy]

khaan was obviously defending gh as a friend. I don't get why that's so hard to see, I'd appreciate if people stop pretending it was alignment-indicative in any way.

I'd be inclined to play it that way regardless of whether I think it's true or not.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd be totally fine with just lynching the scummiest lurker.

Runs into a lot of the same problems if that person is a villager. I have a super secret villager inside the people who haven't posted very much that I don't want lynched either.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Who would people suggest is scum in the universe where Pizza, Punisher, GH, Khaan, Visor, AND Jarema are innocent?

Let's play the game of we're extremely wrong. What does the game look like then?

I don't know and I'm not going to think about it. If you can accept that, at least for Day One, then I think we've come to an agreement.

I'd be totally fine with just lynching the scummiest lurker.

This is a good idea and I can get behind it.

[Zack]

Pretend it's not d1. The stubborn refusal to contribute because "it's day ONE" is irritating.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Pretend it's not d1. The stubborn refusal to contribute because "it's day ONE" is irritating.

I'll contribute in my own way, don't force me down one path out of many.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Look, we've got different ideas on how to approach the game.

We don't have to be a well oiled machine here. We don't have to agree on everything, we don't even have to like the compromise.

But I would suggest the folks here who are present and in a big dispute about how to proceed should compromise.

And the compromise is finding someone to vote for. We can pick up the differences in theory discussion in postgame.

Agreed?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Compromise proposal:

Lynch choxorn

If you don't like that idea

Lynch Jarema

If you don't like that idea, suggest another. But let's avoid lynching the people who are completely absent.

Can we do this?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sure.

What do we think about edse's reaction to Jarema and the requisite vote?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll have to take a look. Gimme sec

[El Barto]

khaan was obviously defending gh as a friend. I don't get why that's so hard to see, I'd appreciate if people stop pretending it was alignment-indicative in any way.

That can happen, but I'm more worried about his asking for a replacement.

I have a super secret villager inside the people who haven't posted very much that I don't want lynched either.

Really.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've got my response ready to go, but am curious where Zack stands.

Zack how do you feel about edse?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Really.

I have a magic bag full of goodies this game. I can clear a lot of people it would seem.

[Zack]

I've got my response ready to go, but am curious where Zack stands.

Zack how do you feel about edse?

I already implied he was my scummiest null read.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is edse's entire contribution to play

A passive aggressive one Vote: Jarema

Pro-
If Jarema is guilty, edse is lock clear, it takes a clear stand, gives a reason.

Con-
If Jarema is innocent, this is an easy enough vote. Edse can be scum here, but it's not a lock.

I'm looking at Jarema innocent universe as a possibility, I don't know if I want to get rid of someone who would be lock clear if Jarema were guilty, based on only this vote. Especially when Jarema-guilty universe looks very likely in a vacuum.

Zack agreeing to lynch Edse today if edse is guilty would be really good for Zack, who I'd otherwise have trouble clearing.